May 24, 2024

S2 - EP3 - Parenthood, Sobriety, and ADHD: A Candid Chat with Cat Sims (Not So Smug Now)

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S2 - EP3 - Parenthood, Sobriety, and ADHD: A Candid Chat with Cat Sims (Not So Smug Now)
S2 - EP3 - Parenthood, Sobriety, and ADHD: A Candid Chat with Cat Sims (Not So Smug Now)
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Season 1

In this episode of Chatty-AF, Rosie Gill-Moss sits down with Instagram influencer, author, and mental health advocate Cat Sims. They talk openly about the challenges of motherhood, navigating sobriety, and living with ADHD. Cat shares her journey from dealing with “mummy wine culture” to embracing sobriety, as well as the reality of being a parent and content creator in today’s digital world.

Key Highlights:

  • The pressures of motherhood and managing the "mental load"
  • The impact of alcohol culture and addiction recovery
  • Living with ADHD as a parent and influencer
  • The importance of self-awareness and breaking down perfectionism in parenting

Why You Should Listen:
Whether you’re a parent, someone navigating sobriety, or curious about life as an influencer, Cat’s honesty and humor will resonate. Her journey highlights that it’s okay not to have it all together and the strength in owning your story.

Guest Info:
Cat Sims is the creator of Not So Smug Now, a popular platform where she shares her no-filter take on parenting, mental health, and sobriety. Follow her on Instagram for more candid insights.


Connect with the show
Web : https://www.chatty-af.com/
Instagram : @chatty_af_podcast and @rosie_gill_moss

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Disclaimers: The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. The experiences and opinions expressed by the guest are personal and should not be taken as general advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional support for similar issues. The producers and host are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information provided in this episode.

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction and Smug Parenting

01:10 - Challenges of Motherhood and Influencer Life

08:59 - Motherhood Pressure and Substance Abuse

13:18 - Family History of Addiction and Personal Trauma

24:08 - Benefits of Sobriety and Changing Friendships

26:27 - Listening and Empathy in Sobriety

27:22 - Alcohol's Effects and Rock Bottom Moments

28:00 - Using Cocaine to Facilitate Drinking

29:13 - Alcohol as a Social Crutch

30:06 - The Acceptance and Kindness of People in Recovery

31:18 - Making the Choice to Stop Drinking

32:10 - Life in Sobriety

33:11 - Dealing with Shame and Guilt

33:23 - Similarities with the Widow Community

35:01 - The Importance of Counting Days

36:19 - The Difference Between Guilt and Shame

37:02 - Taking Responsibility and Making Amends

38:19 - The Impact of Shame and the Power of Recovery

39:16 - The Benefits of Getting Sober in Your 40s

41:06 - The Stigma and Acceptance of Sobriety

42:05 - Reclaiming Time and Energy in Sobriety

43:14 - Unmasking ADHD and Autism

44:19 - Accepting Limitations and Embracing Recovery

45:38 - The Mental Load of Motherhood

51:47 - The Impact of ADHD on Daily Life

52:51 - The Overwhelming Mental Load

53:28 - The Challenges of Modern Parenting

54:04 - The Need for a Middle Ground in Parenting

54:42 - Transitions and Adjustments

55:04 - The Responsibility of Teaching and Learning

55:34 - Taking Control and Asking for Help

56:06 - Managing the Mental Load with Lists and Alarms

56:37 - The Importance of Self-Love and Acceptance

57:06 - The Benefits of Medication and Therapy

57:27 - The Journey of Sobriety and Personal Growth

58:16 - Finding Balance in Parenting and Household Responsibilities

58:36 - Setting Boundaries and Communicating Needs

59:13 - The Importance of Involving Children in Household Tasks

59:36 - Dealing with Online Criticism and Trolls

01:00:06 - The Journey of Self-Acceptance and Growth

01:01:05 - The Challenges of Public Exposure and Online Platforms

01:06:09 - The Power of Sharing and Helping Others

01:09:43 - Dealing with Online Negativity and Tattle

01:11:12 - The Importance of Self-Belief and Pursuing Passions

01:15:20 - The Journey of Personal Growth and Acceptance

01:17:00 - Growing Social Media and Building a Following

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.989
Hello everybody, and welcome back . Today, my guest is Cat Sims.

00:00:08.989 --> 00:00:18.449
She's Instagram royalty, an author, and kind of an advocate for a lot of us out there who thought we were the only ones that were struggling.

00:00:18.949 --> 00:00:27.410
I found the Unmumsy Mum really relatable when the kids were tiny, and then I came across, and I like the name, it's Not So Smug Now, right?

00:00:27.750 --> 00:00:28.149
Yeah.

00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:31.899
Because I was so smug before I had children.

00:00:31.899 --> 00:00:46.664
Um, Now Kat has kindly agreed to come on and talk to me, um, I'm hoping to kind of chat about some common issues or challenges that we face, um, and how you cope with them.

00:00:46.994 --> 00:00:56.463
And also just how, what it's like being an influencer, you know, how, how exposed do you feel being out in the world like that?

00:00:57.369 --> 00:00:59.380
Well, thank you very much for having me.

00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.689
Um, yeah, I was also really smug.

00:01:02.859 --> 00:01:07.189
I mean, that is, that I was the mum that was like, they're not going to have plastic toys.

00:01:07.189 --> 00:01:10.810
They're going to have organic food, no TV, no screens.

00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:11.560
Um,

00:01:11.974 --> 00:01:13.614
till they're two or something.

00:01:13.728 --> 00:01:14.509
going to co sleep.

00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:16.159
I'm going to, they're never going to have a dummy.

00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:26.665
And then obviously, like, they arrived and I think within like 48 hours, they had a dummy because on balance, it was like, Well, it was either like, give them a dummy or throw them out the window, and I was like, on balance, the dummy is less

00:01:26.844 --> 00:01:27.224
option?

00:01:27.704 --> 00:01:50.775
Um, and, you know, it's, and, I sort of want to go back and punch that previous me in the face, but then I also know it's really understandable, because there is no way of anybody fully comprehending what it is like to one day be pregnant, and the next day be in charge of a tiny human being.

00:01:51.135 --> 00:01:58.920
And the transition is Instant and swift and devastating in a lot of ways because it is so overwhelming.

00:01:59.250 --> 00:02:06.099
Um, so once, you know, I realized those smug things were things I had to let go of pretty quickly.

00:02:06.099 --> 00:02:09.299
Ha

00:02:09.414 --> 00:02:16.335
So I've got, I've got three that are biologically mine and then I have a, she's adopted but not adopted because it's complicated, but yeah.

00:02:16.705 --> 00:02:17.574
Um, John's daughter.

00:02:17.625 --> 00:02:19.504
I have four kids, but three, three.

00:02:19.504 --> 00:02:21.455
I don't know why I have to over explain everything.

00:02:21.500 --> 00:02:24.330
Three you hoofed out through your love tunnel or out the

00:02:24.620 --> 00:02:27.939
no, actually, all through the stomach, I'm honeymoon fresh down there.

00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:29.069
Yeah, yeah,

00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:30.250
I love that for you.

00:02:30.810 --> 00:02:32.829
Yeah, it's nice to have the shelf afterwards, right?

00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:36.028
Um, so, I was exactly the same.

00:02:36.490 --> 00:02:40.169
And then I had my second baby, and there was about two years between them.

00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:45.000
And, I discovered CB, because I think we finally upgraded and got a telly that had Sky.

00:02:45.430 --> 00:02:47.229
And, I was like, oh.

00:02:47.585 --> 00:02:54.724
I can put this on and the two year old will just be captivated and I can kind of feed and doze off on the sofa for a few moments.

00:02:55.365 --> 00:03:03.974
And to be honest, you know, all three of my older kids have a telly in their room and an Xbox and I've become the mother I never thought I would be.

00:03:03.974 --> 00:03:06.313
But it is, it's their pop culture as well.

00:03:06.314 --> 00:03:10.493
If you deny them it, you're denying them that common interest at school.

00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:12.840
honestly, I really think that we all overthink this.

00:03:12.870 --> 00:03:19.669
And I understand why, like, I understand why because society and the patriarchy are literally going out of their way to make us all feel bad about it.

00:03:19.669 --> 00:03:19.889
But,

00:03:20.014 --> 00:03:20.473
Oh yeah.

00:03:20.740 --> 00:03:22.930
but I honestly think we're overthinking it.

00:03:22.939 --> 00:03:26.560
Like, I, you know, we're gonna mess them up some way.

00:03:26.969 --> 00:03:29.900
Chances are it's not television that's gonna do it.

00:03:30.460 --> 00:03:38.849
Do you know what my counsellor once said to me, because obviously I'm, you know, one of my biggest fears is that my children have been permanently damaged by the, you know, sudden death of their dad.

00:03:39.409 --> 00:03:52.080
And she said to me, um, if you're worried that you're gonna fuck your children up, you already have, everybody has, like, everybody will, there'll be some memory in your child that you probably can't even remember.

00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:55.080
Like I can still remember my mum smacking me, she has no recollection of this.

00:03:55.109 --> 00:03:55.338
Yeah.

00:03:55.745 --> 00:04:00.454
And also I think as, you know, I think as well there are times where I know I've behaved badly.

00:04:00.454 --> 00:04:05.104
Like when I was in active addiction and things like that, I had this rage and I would like suddenly just explode.

00:04:05.114 --> 00:04:07.653
And I know it scared the sh I don't know if I can swear.

00:04:07.653 --> 00:04:08.153
Can I swear?

00:04:08.205 --> 00:04:11.254
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's called, uh, I mean, my original podcast was called Widow to Sparky.

00:04:11.254 --> 00:04:11.485
Fine.

00:04:11.723 --> 00:04:12.044
Great.

00:04:12.074 --> 00:04:12.403
Got it.

00:04:12.554 --> 00:04:14.433
Um, so it scared the shit out of me.

00:04:14.924 --> 00:04:16.543
And I know it scared the shit out of them.

00:04:16.543 --> 00:04:21.194
So there are things that I know will have traumatised them that I've messed up.

00:04:22.394 --> 00:04:33.613
But I'm willing to go back to them and say, I know I messed up on that and I'm really sorry and I know that this, I can see how this affects you in this way and I want you to know that I have to take responsibility for that and you don't have to do it.

00:04:33.694 --> 00:04:34.923
You know, it's like recognizing that.

00:04:34.923 --> 00:04:35.464
Nobody ever did.

00:04:35.615 --> 00:04:38.334
You're not going to get away with not traumatizing them in

00:04:38.345 --> 00:04:45.084
No, we all, it's even as simple as, you know, asking them to put their shoes on three times, and then screaming, put your fucking shoes on.

00:04:45.564 --> 00:04:50.074
And then beating yourself up for the rest of the day, thinking that you're the worst mother ever.

00:04:50.533 --> 00:04:59.935
And it is about losing this idea of perfection, and accepting that motherhood is flawed, and it's messy, and as long as your kids feel safe and loved.

00:05:00.264 --> 00:05:01.345
Which, most of the time, I do.

00:05:02.125 --> 00:05:04.593
Um, then that, that's really all you can hope for.

00:05:04.593 --> 00:05:09.625
But, you talked, you mentioned briefly there Kat about, um, your addiction.

00:05:09.634 --> 00:05:11.334
Now I'm in recovery as well.

00:05:12.334 --> 00:05:14.744
I've, yeah, I, I think we're on a similar timeline.

00:05:14.745 --> 00:05:15.593
Are you about two years?

00:05:15.964 --> 00:05:17.644
Hehe.

00:05:18.163 --> 00:05:20.795
Yeah, I'm, I'm two years but not till March.

00:05:20.805 --> 00:05:22.074
So you're a little ahead of me.

00:05:22.074 --> 00:05:24.365
You, you, uh, you caught that trend quicker.

00:05:25.254 --> 00:05:26.454
How have you found that?

00:05:26.485 --> 00:05:29.004
Because you've also got ADHD.

00:05:29.064 --> 00:05:31.675
And the two are so intrinsically linked.

00:05:31.964 --> 00:05:38.355
You know, all, uh, my counsellors, uh, she works in a, uh, uh, addiction centre for part of her training.

00:05:38.973 --> 00:05:43.334
And she said it was something, I can't remember the figure, but it was something crazy like 90 percent crossover.

00:05:44.024 --> 00:05:44.274
So.

00:05:45.064 --> 00:05:51.735
I found personally for me, um, ADHD meds helped me a lot with the kind of impulsivity and the self destruct.

00:05:51.774 --> 00:06:00.624
Um, therapy, I, I exercise, you know, all the, all the things that old alcoholic me thought was complete bollocks, but actually does work.

00:06:00.624 --> 00:06:05.634
And I just, I know that you work out and stuff and how have you, how have you found it?

00:06:06.093 --> 00:06:11.634
I mean, I've, I, I, it's been a Oh, what, how do I Do you know what?

00:06:11.634 --> 00:06:16.494
I think for me I got to a point of desperation that actually giving up alcohol was easy.

00:06:16.533 --> 00:06:19.879
And it wasn't that I wasn't an alcoholic.

00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:23.399
I am absolutely, 100 percent identify as an alcoholic.

00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:24.959
I'm very happy to use that word.

00:06:25.339 --> 00:06:30.959
Um, if I don't use that word to describe myself, then the alcoholic in my brain goes, Oh, well you're not really one of those, so you can probably have a

00:06:31.173 --> 00:06:32.254
That's interesting.

00:06:32.449 --> 00:06:36.509
so I have to, I have to, I'm very comfortable with the word alcoholic.

00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:40.158
Um, so, it wasn't that I wasn't alcoholic.

00:06:41.019 --> 00:06:45.709
It was just that I got, you know, I didn't crash and burn in a way a lot of people did.

00:06:45.709 --> 00:06:49.809
I didn't crash a car, I didn't end up in jail, I didn't lose my kids.

00:06:50.278 --> 00:06:56.168
I mean, a lot of those are yets, because I definitely drove drunk, and I definitely did things like that, you know, but I never got caught.

00:06:56.238 --> 00:07:01.809
And so, when I came in, my desperation wasn't really from a place of having lost everything.

00:07:02.449 --> 00:07:08.500
It was from a place of deep, debilitating anxiety.

00:07:09.783 --> 00:07:15.735
I used to wake up every morning at 4am with, um, this panic attack that made me think I was going to drop dead.

00:07:15.735 --> 00:07:29.985
And I guess a moral, I guess an inner break, not a breakdown, but an inner kind of crash and burning, if you like, like a spiritual death.

00:07:30.314 --> 00:07:41.064
And I just knew that I wasn't, Being my be, I wasn't giving myself the chance to do what I wanted to do, and I was really resentful of not having achieved what I wanted to achieve.

00:07:41.064 --> 00:07:46.163
And I was really resentful of having to do lots of stuff for other people and never having time for me.

00:07:47.033 --> 00:07:54.744
Um, and then it was obviously everybody else's fault and I could, and I was in this just cycle of like, just kept me

00:07:54.848 --> 00:07:56.300
everybody else is doing it, right?

00:07:56.329 --> 00:08:07.418
Like, it's that, I think for our generation, the mummy wine culture has probably been one of the most damaging things, because it became absolutely normal to crack open a bottle of wine on a play date at 3.

00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:07.968
30.

00:08:07.968 --> 00:08:08.608
And then,

00:08:08.610 --> 00:08:09.559
always been the case.

00:08:09.569 --> 00:08:14.009
Like I, I do get a little bit frustrated sometimes with people like mummy wine culture is to blame.

00:08:14.009 --> 00:08:15.608
I think mums have always drank a lot.

00:08:15.658 --> 00:08:17.908
I mean, if you go back to the 1950s to see that they were like

00:08:18.009 --> 00:08:19.089
I suppose you're right.

00:08:19.089 --> 00:08:21.759
I think perhaps because my parents didn't, perhaps it feels different.

00:08:21.939 --> 00:08:35.495
I think it, I think motherhood has always put a pressure and the mental load that comes with that has always put a pressure on women that we've struggled to manage because A, it's never been allowed to be identified as a problem.

00:08:35.625 --> 00:08:39.985
We've never been allowed to go, this is really hard, because we've always been made to think this is our natural calling.

00:08:40.384 --> 00:08:47.075
And therefore, if we complain about it, there's something fundamentally wrong with us as female women, as female humans, if you like.

00:08:47.075 --> 00:09:00.375
Um, and it's, so I think we've all, I think that pressure has always been there, and I think there's always been elements of substance abuse in a very functional way amongst mothers from the beginning of time, if I'm

00:09:00.465 --> 00:09:04.154
Well, you're right because it's Mother's Little Helper and, you know, that's her.

00:09:04.174 --> 00:09:05.184
valium And,

00:09:05.350 --> 00:09:18.549
and and I also believe, and this is absolutely not scientific at all, but just through my own experience that there's a lot more functional addicts and functional alcoholics who are women than there are men.

00:09:19.019 --> 00:09:24.499
Most men who get into alcoholism, again, not scientific, so if I'm wrong, willing to be challenged.

00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:30.669
But from my experience and what I've seen, most men tend to have a very, a much more traditional.

00:09:31.220 --> 00:09:32.580
slide into alcoholism.

00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:40.359
You know, we know when men are alcoholics, you know, they're often sh well, they're also, they're not particularly functional a lot of the time.

00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:46.080
You know, they might get through the day, but they're probably, they're violent at home or they're angry or they're, you've lost, you know, whatever it is.

00:09:46.340 --> 00:09:49.669
Whereas there's a lot of very functioning female alcoh women alcoholics.

00:09:49.669 --> 00:10:00.639
And I think that that's because in my, again, nothing scientific, but I think as women, we are It's a survival instinct in us to fit in and to,

00:10:00.794 --> 00:10:01.404
Mm hmm.

00:10:03.850 --> 00:10:06.559
stay safe because we have a predator.

00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:12.158
Like at the most basic level, you know, we, we have a predator, which is men.

00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:16.668
And so there is an element of us, I think, that feels the need to fit in and not.

00:10:17.615 --> 00:10:24.784
Draw attention to ourselves, which is why I think linking back to ADHD, we're so much more likely to mask ADHD and autism.

00:10:24.985 --> 00:10:27.715
And I think it's the same with addiction and alcoholism as well.

00:10:27.715 --> 00:10:33.654
You know, I think there's lots of ways that we find to fit in.

00:10:33.654 --> 00:10:36.254
Uh,

00:10:36.433 --> 00:10:39.813
my first drink at 14 and I got violently drunk.

00:10:39.875 --> 00:10:42.073
I mean, threw up on myself.

00:10:43.049 --> 00:10:44.379
Piss myself if I'm honest, you know.

00:10:45.049 --> 00:10:49.399
My parents made me do the, um, My dad and my brother were doing the London to Brighton the next day.

00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:51.750
So they made me sit in the minibus all the way there and all the way back.

00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:53.869
And I swear to God I didn't drink for about six months.

00:10:53.870 --> 00:10:58.589
But, I very quickly realised that alcohol gave me this social currency.

00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.619
And, um, the ability to, to fit in and to be.

00:11:02.828 --> 00:11:04.899
I now refer back to her as Party Rose.

00:11:05.844 --> 00:11:12.475
And from 14 till 40, I was Party Rose, I was the guaranteed person to be on the tables dancing.

00:11:13.504 --> 00:11:18.245
It was an entire identity that I had built around being a party girl.

00:11:18.924 --> 00:11:24.524
And even as a mother, I never lost it because I would seek out the mothers that also drank to kind of justify it.

00:11:25.054 --> 00:11:40.419
And when I stopped, I know this sounds kind of ridiculous, but it was almost like I was grieving for this lost this person because I was so wrapped up in the identity of being a boozy girl, you know, a booze hound kind of thing.

00:11:40.438 --> 00:11:46.360
And I didn't know who I was going to be when I stripped myself back and who my friends would be and would I be boring.

00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:50.539
And actually, I mean, I did a hundred days as my initial challenge.

00:11:50.589 --> 00:11:55.110
And in that time I did wedding, funeral, um, 50th birthday party.

00:11:56.090 --> 00:11:59.649
And actually the only thing that I haven't managed to do is dance.

00:11:59.750 --> 00:12:03.688
So I did my first Zumba class yesterday to try and break this barrier that I've got.

00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:11.719
And I'm hoping that's, because that's the only thing we, you know, the conversation still flows, we still have, and I don't really like going out in the evening, but I think that's my age.

00:12:11.779 --> 00:12:19.379
Um, but the friends I've built around me now, none of them are massive drinkers either, so I don't really feel I'm missing out anyway.

00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:20.163
Uh,

00:12:20.465 --> 00:12:23.544
and, and funnily enough, my story was the same in terms of when I started drinking.

00:12:23.544 --> 00:12:27.634
I was about 13, so I was about the same age and got absolutely blackout drunk.

00:12:27.634 --> 00:12:30.465
Woke up in the morning with like vomit on the side of my bed.

00:12:30.924 --> 00:12:33.043
And the next morning was like a family tradition.

00:12:33.044 --> 00:12:34.443
We got up at 6 to walk up a hill.

00:12:34.884 --> 00:12:37.404
And I was like, well, I'm not going to do that because I'm not very well.

00:12:37.414 --> 00:12:40.144
And dad was like, no, you're not sick.

00:12:40.154 --> 00:12:40.955
You're hungover.

00:12:40.965 --> 00:12:41.975
You get up and you carry on.

00:12:42.004 --> 00:12:43.943
And that was the lesson I was taught at 13.

00:12:45.434 --> 00:12:48.624
If you're hungover, you get up and, you know, you still get on with what you have to do.

00:12:48.945 --> 00:12:52.594
It wasn't, you're 13, you shouldn't be drinking till blackout and puking on the side of the bed.

00:12:53.114 --> 00:12:54.874
That was never said to me.

00:12:55.594 --> 00:13:01.833
Um, but yes, there is definitely No, of course.

00:13:01.913 --> 00:13:03.734
Uh, yes.

00:13:03.735 --> 00:13:05.054
Yes.

00:13:05.054 --> 00:13:06.375
I

00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:09.059
dad's been sober 27 years.

00:13:09.149 --> 00:13:12.570
So, he was sober when I started drinking.

00:13:12.740 --> 00:13:14.350
And I think it must have been quite difficult.

00:13:14.830 --> 00:13:16.409
I suppose I hid a lot from them.

00:13:16.419 --> 00:13:18.289
You know, teenagers can be quite sneaky.

00:13:18.809 --> 00:13:22.179
But, um, it was almost quite a taboo thing in my house.

00:13:22.220 --> 00:13:24.580
Because my mum didn't drink because she couldn't.

00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.879
Because my dad was, um, a heavy drinker.

00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:28.919
And then he stopped.

00:13:29.149 --> 00:13:35.745
And, I mean I guess there was alcohol in the house, but it wasn't a very boozy household.

00:13:36.144 --> 00:13:41.365
And I know that my mum worried desperately for years, even prior to Ben dying, about, you know, the levels of drinking.

00:13:41.365 --> 00:13:42.264
But I just used to hide it.

00:13:42.264 --> 00:13:45.424
I'd stay at friends houses and moved out at 17.

00:13:46.264 --> 00:13:49.914
Our house was, our family was, and still are, huge drinkers.

00:13:49.965 --> 00:13:55.823
And I wouldn't say all of them are alcoholics by any stretch, but there's definitely a few contenders in there.

00:13:55.933 --> 00:13:56.985
And, um,

00:13:58.149 --> 00:14:00.364
Yeah.

00:14:00.455 --> 00:14:01.735
saw people not get drunk.

00:14:01.745 --> 00:14:05.095
Like, I never saw people just share, have a, have a glass of wine.

00:14:05.455 --> 00:14:08.095
In our family, people got together, we got pissed.

00:14:08.344 --> 00:14:11.865
It was fun from, as a kid looking into it.

00:14:11.865 --> 00:14:13.894
It probably wasn't if you were, you know, on the other side of it.

00:14:13.894 --> 00:14:15.335
But as somebody looking, it was a lot of fun.

00:14:15.884 --> 00:14:18.764
And so I just assumed that when you drank, you got drunk.

00:14:19.125 --> 00:14:32.710
And That never ever changed and like you it became social currency to me, but also it just allowed me to, to be, to be, it was an, like, people are like, it worked, you know, it

00:14:32.804 --> 00:14:34.054
Social lubricant as

00:14:34.239 --> 00:14:44.210
what it needed to do, it protected me, it protected the real me from my biggest fears of all life, which are like rejection and being humiliated.

00:14:44.995 --> 00:14:45.384
Same.

00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:46.120
That's it.

00:14:46.129 --> 00:14:50.720
So, if I went into a social situation, those two things are high on the list of possibilities.

00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:53.649
You know, they might not like me, or I might do something stupid.

00:14:53.970 --> 00:14:57.499
So I would drink, and then I would lie because I wanted to be accepted.

00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:00.288
So they'd be like, you know, have you read this book, or have you listened to this album?

00:15:00.288 --> 00:15:01.730
I'd be like, yeah, totally, sure I have.

00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:02.379
And I haven't.

00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:11.649
And it's such a silly thing to lie about, but the thought of being other, or giving anybody a reason to be like, well she's a bit weird, I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

00:15:11.730 --> 00:15:19.629
And You know, at primary school, I remember, like, I'm working through a lot of this stuff because they say when you stop drinking, you get your feelings back, which is great, but

00:15:19.750 --> 00:15:20.009
Oh

00:15:20.149 --> 00:15:22.519
bad news, it's bad because you get your feelings back.

00:15:23.149 --> 00:15:30.019
And I was like, well, it's been two years and I don't really get the feelings thing, like, I've always been quite emotional and I feel like I'm quite emotionally intelligent, blah, blah, blah.

00:15:30.340 --> 00:15:44.443
Anyway, in the last few months, I've suddenly started having this very visceral, very physical trauma response to The, any possibility of somebody catching me out doing something wrong, or dis, or like.

00:15:45.014 --> 00:15:45.485
So,

00:15:45.708 --> 00:15:49.308
And do you think that's to do with how, how public your profile is now?

00:15:49.349 --> 00:15:50.299
And, I mean

00:15:50.504 --> 00:15:52.024
it's not, it's nothing public.

00:15:52.024 --> 00:15:53.054
Public I'm fine with.

00:15:53.304 --> 00:16:00.245
It's people who are in my, like, inner circle, people who I really respect, people who I'm working with on a very per, like, people I know in real life.

00:16:00.654 --> 00:16:05.315
If they, you know, for example, a friend called, a friend messaged me, she said, I really need to talk to you about this.

00:16:05.355 --> 00:16:06.554
And I knew instantly.

00:16:07.049 --> 00:16:10.149
That she was, she didn't agree with something I was doing.

00:16:10.529 --> 00:16:14.100
And so, rather than sort of go, Oh, I'll call her and we'll have a chat about that.

00:16:14.169 --> 00:16:18.070
In my head I was like, well obviously we can't be friends anymore, I need a new friend, I should never speak to her again.

00:16:18.458 --> 00:16:20.000
Like, that's my easiest response.

00:16:20.429 --> 00:16:24.918
Um, and then when it did happen and I did call her, I just burst into tears.

00:16:24.948 --> 00:16:27.299
And I wasn't sad, I wasn't angry, and it was overwhelming.

00:16:27.309 --> 00:16:28.419
It was like a panic attack.

00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:33.049
And um, and it is that fear of being humiliated.

00:16:33.470 --> 00:16:36.725
It's not It's not the fear of doing something wrong.

00:16:37.284 --> 00:17:01.565
It's the fear of how people make me feel when I've done something wrong, which comes from like being at primary school, where it was, you know, if you're in the 80s and 90s, I just wrote an article about it on my sub stack actually, but if you're in school in the 80s and 90s, or at least from my experience, was that when I did something wrong, there was no, like, Well look, this is the consequence and how can we help you to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

00:17:01.594 --> 00:17:07.214
Bearing in mind I was also undiagnosed ADHD so I was losing everything and I wasn't in the right place at the right time ever and

00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:09.299
you a massive overachiever?

00:17:10.025 --> 00:17:10.904
Uh, yes.

00:17:10.944 --> 00:17:11.634
Well, yes.

00:17:11.659 --> 00:17:12.969
I was at primary school.

00:17:13.233 --> 00:17:14.743
I, I wanted to be.

00:17:14.993 --> 00:17:20.763
Like that was, I had this deep, deep, deep desire to achieve because my parents really responded to that.

00:17:20.763 --> 00:17:34.334
I had great parents and they're lovely but they weren't particularly emotionally And so I got a lot of attention from them when I did things well, whether that was like swim meets or grades or anything like that.

00:17:34.334 --> 00:17:36.334
So that stuff is really important to me.

00:17:36.724 --> 00:17:42.884
Um, but the ability to connect on a deeper level in relationships is something I still struggle with.

00:17:42.884 --> 00:17:49.903
You know, I am sort of attachment avoidant and I think that's largely to do with probably boarding school.

00:17:50.253 --> 00:17:52.714
Um, but I also think that's what makes.

00:17:54.144 --> 00:17:56.314
easy for me to do the job that I do.

00:17:56.324 --> 00:17:59.923
You know, I'm not too attached to anything I put out there.

00:17:59.923 --> 00:18:02.304
I'm not too attached to my own version of myself.

00:18:02.304 --> 00:18:05.744
I'm not too attached to anybody's opinion that comes back to me.

00:18:05.744 --> 00:18:13.798
So I think in some ways it really works in my favour, but on a personal level, it's tricky.

00:18:13.798 --> 00:18:15.344
Mmm.

00:18:15.454 --> 00:18:21.755
when I got sober, um, that my friendship group changed naturally and I stopped being invited out by certain people.

00:18:22.295 --> 00:18:27.574
But then I also found that other people really liked sober me and found me much.

00:18:27.934 --> 00:18:33.125
You know, when you do, and I really hate this term, but you know, get your authentic self.

00:18:34.398 --> 00:18:40.079
You are, you're not afraid of being caught out anymore because I think I lived my life without any real opinions.

00:18:40.089 --> 00:18:42.028
I just used to just absorb them from other people.

00:18:42.028 --> 00:18:43.489
Like you say, you know, Oh yeah, I've read that book.

00:18:43.489 --> 00:18:48.500
And you know, I would sort of parrot back things I'd heard other people say.

00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:52.829
And whereas now I feel like I'm, I know who I am.

00:18:52.869 --> 00:18:58.739
And for me, getting diagnosed was an enormous part of that process because it helps lessen so much of the shame.

00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:08.000
Um, and the shame of the things I did in active addiction, the things that, you know, Like you say, you know, driving the next day when you definitely shouldn't have done, and things like this.

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.638
But,

00:19:10.714 --> 00:19:11.744
I was driving that night.

00:19:11.773 --> 00:19:12.023
Like,

00:19:12.219 --> 00:19:14.648
you know, It turns you into a monster, right?

00:19:14.650 --> 00:19:19.499
Yeah.

00:19:20.304 --> 00:19:24.464
to understand that I didn't do the bad things because I was a bad person.

00:19:24.464 --> 00:19:26.263
I did the bad things because I was unwell.

00:19:26.855 --> 00:19:29.625
And like, for me, I was unwell in a variety.

00:19:29.625 --> 00:19:32.693
I was unwell because I was trying to manage an undiagnosed neurodivergency.

00:19:32.693 --> 00:19:34.214
I was unwell because of trauma.

00:19:34.224 --> 00:19:42.824
I was unwell because I had alcoholic, you know, it was all of these things and people are like, Oh, we don't really understand why addicts are addicts.

00:19:42.835 --> 00:19:44.003
It actually doesn't really matter.

00:19:44.044 --> 00:19:53.114
Like the fact is, is that for whatever reason, whether it's trauma, genetics, learned behavior, there are some of us that when we drink, we cannot stop.

00:19:53.124 --> 00:19:54.044
Like when we have one

00:19:54.068 --> 00:19:58.449
It's the raisin and grape analogy, which I can't quite remember how it is.

00:19:58.449 --> 00:20:00.888
Some people are raisins, and they can't drink.

00:20:00.898 --> 00:20:01.888
Some people are grapes and they can.

00:20:02.259 --> 00:20:05.148
But I'm fairly certain I'm not doing that justice.

00:20:05.378 --> 00:20:06.829
Somebody explained it to me once.

00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:10.669
It's, it's, it's, you know, somebody was like, it's an allergy.

00:20:10.669 --> 00:20:12.859
And I was like, I'm not buying into that, it's not an allergy.

00:20:12.859 --> 00:20:16.138
But then he was like, it doesn't, it's not about being medically correct.

00:20:16.159 --> 00:20:18.898
It's about using it as a term to help people understand.

00:20:18.919 --> 00:20:24.749
And I react differently to other people when I drink alcohol.

00:20:24.749 --> 00:20:26.529
There are people who can have a glass of wine.

00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.339
My body physically, I cannot do that.

00:20:29.378 --> 00:20:31.319
I mean, I can, I can do it.

00:20:33.704 --> 00:20:37.055
But it's like, but it's very unusual.

00:20:37.164 --> 00:20:38.194
No, I never saw the point.

00:20:38.234 --> 00:20:41.845
And my brain, and I could have done it, but I'm sat there jonesing for another.

00:20:42.503 --> 00:20:42.784
Like,

00:20:43.184 --> 00:20:45.003
Waiting for the waiter to come round

00:20:45.084 --> 00:20:50.094
Yeah, or watching how much, yes, and ordering the next bottle before that one's finished.

00:20:50.394 --> 00:20:53.325
You know, just because you don't want to ever be without an empty, and I drank much.

00:20:53.444 --> 00:20:56.773
You know, so, I react differently.

00:20:57.144 --> 00:21:00.054
And, whatever the reason for that is.

00:21:02.055 --> 00:21:09.355
I am allergic to alcohol in that sense, in the same way that somebody who eats a Snickers bar and is allergic to nuts reacts differently to that Snickers bar.

00:21:09.845 --> 00:21:20.454
The only difference is, and this is the insanity of the illness, somebody who's allergic to nuts has a Snickers bar and nearly dies, goes, I am never, ever touching nuts again.

00:21:20.944 --> 00:21:22.684
And we all go, of course, why wouldn't you?

00:21:23.134 --> 00:21:23.865
She never does.

00:21:25.034 --> 00:21:29.974
People who are allergic to alcohol drink, nearly die, put themselves in dangerous situations, do it time and time again.

00:21:30.398 --> 00:21:33.679
Time and time again, we're like, oh nearly that wasn't great, but I'm gonna do it again.

00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:35.169
And that's the insanity

00:21:35.724 --> 00:21:39.994
And then you'll get yourself sober and people will still say to you, Well you can have one, can't you?

00:21:40.513 --> 00:21:43.894
And I just think, A, I don't want one because it's pointless.

00:21:44.263 --> 00:21:46.713
Um, if I'm having one, I'm having thirty.

00:21:46.994 --> 00:21:56.404
Um, and two, the implication that I will only be satisfactory to you if I've had an alcoholic drink is quite insulting.

00:21:56.625 --> 00:21:58.784
So, I've found people that do that.

00:21:58.785 --> 00:22:00.585
I've just separated myself from

00:22:00.638 --> 00:22:05.459
Yeah, and I mean also it's like well you wouldn't say to somebody you had an allergy we can just have one

00:22:05.934 --> 00:22:07.193
Yeah, just have one peanut, you'll be alright.

00:22:07.199 --> 00:22:19.204
It's like no like the chances are the chances of me dying when I drink are significantly higher To somebody who is not an addict or an alcoholic.

00:22:19.503 --> 00:22:21.654
That is the, that is the simple fact.

00:22:22.003 --> 00:22:23.034
and it's the risk isn't it?

00:22:23.315 --> 00:22:28.605
My dad has, like I said, he's been sober a lot longer than me, and he just said it's just not worth the risk.

00:22:28.614 --> 00:22:33.784
You might be able to have one glass of wine or one beer and be fine, but you also might not.

00:22:33.894 --> 00:22:36.153
And I've been very, very lucky.

00:22:36.214 --> 00:22:40.565
I had my life blown apart nearly six years ago, and I've managed to rebuild.

00:22:41.094 --> 00:22:43.273
I have a new husband, a new husband.

00:22:43.275 --> 00:22:52.855
I have four beautiful children, I have a lovely home, and I just felt like this was taking from me all the joy.

00:22:52.894 --> 00:22:54.345
And I was gonna fuck it up.

00:22:54.374 --> 00:22:56.914
I was gonna do something that was gonna blow it apart.

00:22:57.263 --> 00:22:59.384
I don't know what it would have been, but I would have done something.

00:22:59.834 --> 00:23:02.244
And, much like you, I didn't really have a rock bottom.

00:23:02.255 --> 00:23:05.730
I, it was my Delayed 40th birthday celebrations.

00:23:05.730 --> 00:23:07.319
Woke up in a, in a dorchester.

00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:10.569
Um, and I was face down, fully clothed.

00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:12.589
My husband had paid for dinner for my friends.

00:23:12.618 --> 00:23:14.619
And, and I, and I hadn't eaten a thing.

00:23:15.089 --> 00:23:17.298
And I just thought, this is such a waste.

00:23:17.349 --> 00:23:18.959
You are wasting your life.

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.888
Either paralytically drunk, or filled with self loathing.

00:23:22.898 --> 00:23:24.099
You know, the spiders.

00:23:24.710 --> 00:23:28.409
And it was just, I remember walking to the station, and I must have looked homeless.

00:23:28.409 --> 00:23:32.809
I just looked, I, basically, if I hadn't known I'd done it to myself, I'd have called an ambulance.

00:23:33.595 --> 00:23:38.384
I'm getting the train home and I just said to John, as I have done many, many times, I think I'm done.

00:23:38.904 --> 00:23:40.634
And he, you know, very supportive, went, yeah, you've got a call.

00:23:40.664 --> 00:23:42.513
And I said, no, no, I seriously, I'm done.

00:23:42.854 --> 00:23:49.154
Um, and then I did this for a hundred days and, yeah, I, I, I genuinely think it's the, the best thing I've ever done.

00:23:49.154 --> 00:23:54.454
I, I'm so much, I'm a bit, I'm not a perfect parent, but I'm also not a drunk parent.

00:23:54.964 --> 00:24:03.244
I think as well, the reality is, you know, a lot of, I would have said well, the benefit of alcohol is that Like, it's really fun.

00:24:03.273 --> 00:24:09.125
And there were, listen, there were elements, there were times when it was a lot of fun, and there weren't any consequences, and that was great.

00:24:09.834 --> 00:24:17.585
But they were getting fewer and farther between, and, also, the fact is, now I look back on it and I go, well, I actually now know that I can have just as much fun without it.

00:24:17.674 --> 00:24:28.744
It took me a while, like, it wasn't easy for me to socialize at first, and there was a lot of anxiety, I had to do a lot of work on getting out there, and I had to really put systems in place to protect myself when I was, and, you know, now I'm fine.

00:24:28.815 --> 00:24:30.714
Now I can turn up, I can stay till midnight.

00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:35.799
Um, I'll dance, I'll do all of that stuff, and I'll drive home and listen to a podcast, and then I will be smug.

00:24:35.878 --> 00:24:42.219
Like, I don't like to be smug, but the only time I am smug is when I'm driving home from a night out listening to a podcast, and I know I can get up in the morning.

00:24:42.220 --> 00:24:45.259
Um,

00:24:45.684 --> 00:24:50.214
and you don't sleep terribly well, it's just getting up in the morning and not feeling awful.

00:24:50.673 --> 00:24:53.855
Um, I mean some days I do just feel awful, but that's just

00:24:53.990 --> 00:25:07.349
But it's all, but yeah, and it's, and, you know, going back to what you were saying about people that you've lost along the way in terms of friendships, you know, I, well, first of all, There was never any blowout.

00:25:07.388 --> 00:25:11.638
There was never anybody who went, We're not going to be friends anymore, you massive loser.

00:25:11.888 --> 00:25:12.648
Nobody did that.

00:25:12.659 --> 00:25:15.250
I mean, maybe they thought it, but they never said it to my face.

00:25:15.710 --> 00:25:19.509
Um, there were certainly people who I just drifted away from naturally.

00:25:19.825 --> 00:25:20.554
Drink buddies.

00:25:21.029 --> 00:25:25.690
yeah, and like, when I thought about it, those were the people that I only ever got drunk with.

00:25:26.199 --> 00:25:28.500
Like, I would have called them really good friends.

00:25:28.849 --> 00:25:30.798
But we never got together and didn't drink.

00:25:31.469 --> 00:25:32.778
Um, and

00:25:32.794 --> 00:25:50.223
you what else, just to jump in there as well, is you have these really in depth conversations when you're drunk, but I never used to remember it, whereas now, when people tell me really kind of personal things, I do remember, and I think, I feel quite awful like the things people must have told me over the years, and I have absolutely no recollection of.

00:25:50.828 --> 00:25:56.199
Well, but do you, I don't know if you've done this, but I've been out when everybody else has been really pissed and it's fine.

00:25:56.209 --> 00:26:00.818
But I've heard, been in that conversation and what I realize, nobody's listening.

00:26:01.193 --> 00:26:01.733
No.

00:26:02.098 --> 00:26:03.419
Nobody's listening.

00:26:03.838 --> 00:26:06.449
Everybody is like, when can I speak?

00:26:06.548 --> 00:26:07.818
I've got an opinion on that.

00:26:07.969 --> 00:26:09.318
This is what I think.

00:26:09.328 --> 00:26:11.278
You're, it's, it's not.

00:26:12.439 --> 00:26:15.189
It's quite a toxic conversation to be a part of.

00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:23.299
And, um, what I've realized in sobriety, what I've learned, and I'm still learning, is, like, to shut my mouth and open my ears.

00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:27.869
Um, because in sobriety I can listen.

00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:33.278
And in sobriety I've learned I don't have to have an opinion on everything.

00:26:33.329 --> 00:26:36.319
And if I do have an opinion on something, I don't have to say it.

00:26:37.223 --> 00:26:37.693
Mm.

00:26:37.694 --> 00:26:38.585
Yeah.

00:26:38.595 --> 00:26:41.864
And when I was drinking, it never would have occurred to me.

00:26:42.253 --> 00:26:53.255
Even if it, even if I was, you know, restrained, sober, it never would have, I wouldn't have had the skills to be that empathetic, to be, um, to listen.

00:26:53.423 --> 00:26:55.223
Because alcohol takes that away from you.

00:26:56.454 --> 00:26:59.914
And weirdly, you know, it used to make me tired.

00:27:00.315 --> 00:27:05.864
Like I can go out till, I mean it's not often, but I could go out or potentially stay up till midnight now.

00:27:06.444 --> 00:27:17.894
Um, whereas before, just alcohol would make me kind of sleepy and, you know, there is genuinely somewhere in existence a photograph of me.

00:27:18.464 --> 00:27:26.394
I'd gone out with my mum friends, uh, our eldest had just turned one, and we went out and there's a face, a photo of me somewhere in existence, face down in the Chinese.

00:27:26.815 --> 00:27:27.534
I mean, come on.

00:27:28.013 --> 00:27:29.644
I mean, listen, two things there.

00:27:29.644 --> 00:27:32.574
Firstly, you're obviously the mother of a one year old, so slightly understandable.

00:27:32.575 --> 00:27:37.564
But also, you know, I have friends who do the same thing.

00:27:37.584 --> 00:27:38.634
I never fell asleep.

00:27:38.654 --> 00:27:39.584
I always wanted to keep going.

00:27:39.584 --> 00:27:40.804
I chased the buzz too hard.

00:27:40.814 --> 00:27:41.513
Like, for me, that

00:27:41.584 --> 00:27:42.423
my, this was my

00:27:42.574 --> 00:27:42.934
was it.

00:27:42.953 --> 00:27:45.164
And then, blackout, for me, was a problem.

00:27:46.224 --> 00:27:54.153
So when I said I didn't come in because of a rock bottom, that's true, but it's not to say that I didn't have many, many rock bottoms that should have brought me in that didn't.

00:27:54.605 --> 00:27:59.954
Um, and so blackout was a problem, but the addict in my head would say, well, drinking's not the problem.

00:27:59.983 --> 00:28:01.275
Blacking out is the problem.

00:28:01.285 --> 00:28:02.513
That's when the bad things happen.

00:28:02.513 --> 00:28:11.974
So we need to figure out a way for you not to blackout, which is when I started using things like cocaine to, you know, and, and people are like, oh, are you, you know, are you an addict as well as an alcoholic?

00:28:12.470 --> 00:28:13.930
Not really.

00:28:13.970 --> 00:28:18.150
Not in terms of cocaine because I only ever used cocaine to facilitate more drinking.

00:28:18.710 --> 00:28:21.079
I only ever used it so that I wouldn't black out.

00:28:21.690 --> 00:28:21.930
And

00:28:22.344 --> 00:28:23.604
And you could keep the party going.

00:28:23.690 --> 00:28:24.638
and I could keep going.

00:28:24.659 --> 00:28:27.289
And people are like, yeah, but when people are on cocaine they don't drink anymore.

00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:28.359
I'm like, I drank.

00:28:28.544 --> 00:28:29.124
I drank more.

00:28:29.564 --> 00:28:30.144
It enabled me

00:28:30.239 --> 00:28:32.200
7 o'clock in the morning.

00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:35.539
It did not take away the desire for me to drink.

00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:37.839
That was always the primary goal.

00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:40.480
Anything that took away the desire to drink, I didn't want to do

00:28:40.574 --> 00:28:41.085
Same.

00:28:41.424 --> 00:28:41.763
Same.

00:28:42.474 --> 00:28:44.224
Anything that interrupted drinking.

00:28:44.284 --> 00:28:54.304
Um, and it's, it's, It's funny, I mean, I, looking back, and it was my actual birthday, so just before I stopped drinking, my parents came down and took us out for a meal, locally.

00:28:54.815 --> 00:29:01.594
And I can just remember, like, start having one drink, and then, just drinking, drinking, drinking.

00:29:01.594 --> 00:29:02.304
It's like a Monday.

00:29:02.375 --> 00:29:03.653
I'm with my parents.

00:29:03.653 --> 00:29:04.724
Why do I need to be pissed?

00:29:05.273 --> 00:29:12.875
But it becomes so, Integral to any socializing that I did, that if there wasn't going to be booze there, I wasn't interested.

00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:16.179
I used to say things like, um, I don't trust people who don't drink.

00:29:16.209 --> 00:29:22.489
I used to say things like, I used to say, I'm not, I'll, any diet that doesn't let me drink wine I'm not interested

00:29:22.653 --> 00:29:23.114
Yep.

00:29:23.544 --> 00:29:24.684
Or vodka if you're keto.

00:29:25.179 --> 00:29:26.358
I couldn't, no I couldn't even do vodka.

00:29:26.388 --> 00:29:27.858
I was never a spirits girl.

00:29:27.858 --> 00:29:31.048
I think the ADHD in me meant I was never cocktails and spirits.

00:29:31.059 --> 00:29:32.548
That was always too many steps to make a

00:29:32.694 --> 00:29:39.864
Uh, cocktails, too many steps, but spirits, I drank because, um, I was worried I'd get fat, basically.

00:29:40.273 --> 00:29:44.334
I mean, in the great things, the damage I was doing to myself, my worry was that wine

00:29:44.454 --> 00:29:44.765
know.

00:29:45.005 --> 00:29:50.484
Well, that's the, and again, you know, talking about it always makes me laugh because I'd be like, oh, I don't drink cow's milk.

00:29:50.765 --> 00:29:54.224
Like cocaine's fine, but cow's milk is a step too far.

00:29:54.555 --> 00:29:55.065
Or

00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:58.319
organic, but it's absolutely fine to drink Wetherspoon's wine.

00:29:58.454 --> 00:29:58.744
Yeah.

00:29:58.744 --> 00:30:00.825
Oh, I can't believe you inject yourself with Botox.

00:30:00.825 --> 00:30:03.164
Well, I literally just saw you put a gram of coke up your nose.

00:30:03.164 --> 00:30:06.285
So I think, I think, you know, let's have a, let's step back a bit.

00:30:06.654 --> 00:30:07.325
This, you know, when I

00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:12.288
sat with a friend who was breastfeeding and doing cocaine, like I and to me it didn't,

00:30:12.855 --> 00:30:18.250
I'm not judging because Because I've done terrible things, I've done terrible things, but that is the insanity of it.

00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:20.220
That person is not a bad person who did that.

00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:27.400
She, there is a problem, you know, because we come out of addiction and we are good people.

00:30:27.430 --> 00:30:36.769
In fact, I would go as far as to say that alcoholics in recovery are hands down the coolest and kindest people I've ever met.

00:30:37.250 --> 00:30:38.059
I would agree with

00:30:38.269 --> 00:30:41.029
I have never met, and not, there are.

00:30:41.670 --> 00:31:04.190
People out there, you know, it's essentially we are fundamentally slightly unwell, so there is, I'm not saying it's across the board, but there is a willingness in us to be so much more accepting and tolerant and quiet, if I'm honest, than people not in recovery.

00:31:04.710 --> 00:31:10.909
I think it's actually quite similar to, um, uh, conversations I have with the widowed community.

00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:13.878
Where you make a choice, don't you?

00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:16.349
You realise that something is not doing you good anymore.

00:31:16.430 --> 00:31:19.959
That your life is, it's, it's taking from you far more than it's giving you.

00:31:20.420 --> 00:31:22.489
Some people just accept that that's what they're gonna do.

00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.190
Um, other people make a choice.

00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:29.150
And it's a big scary choice in a world that really does celebrate drinking.

00:31:29.669 --> 00:31:33.400
And you make a choice and you put the scaffolding in place.

00:31:33.430 --> 00:31:40.460
And it, there's been times Particularly, I'm fighting, um, kind of PMDD, perimenopause stuff at the moment.

00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:43.480
And there are times when I go into the, the, I call it the snake.

00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:48.669
And I, and I just think a bottle of wine would just numb this.

00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:50.980
But I also know the shame I would feel the next day.

00:31:51.009 --> 00:31:53.378
And also I don't want to have to go back to day one.

00:31:53.479 --> 00:31:55.680
I think that's, that's the benefit of counting, isn't it?

00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:57.019
Because you just don't want to go back to day

00:31:57.109 --> 00:31:58.480
well, and two things.

00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:02.660
Firstly, I've never, there is not a problem in the world that drinks going to make better.

00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:03.700
Not one.

00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:13.670
And also, um, I've never met anybody, and I've met a lot of sober people, I've never met anybody who said, well I gave up booze and my life got worse.

00:32:13.775 --> 00:32:19.115
No, you're so right, and that's what I told myself all the way through those hundred days was, I can always go back to it.

00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:19.970
that's it.

00:32:19.990 --> 00:32:23.519
And I have met, listen, that's not to say that life doesn't still get lifey.

00:32:23.779 --> 00:32:24.279
It does.

00:32:24.289 --> 00:32:25.819
Like shit things still happen.

00:32:26.190 --> 00:32:27.490
You know, people still die.

00:32:28.184 --> 00:32:29.295
Jobs still get lost.

00:32:29.345 --> 00:32:30.295
People get sick.

00:32:30.515 --> 00:32:31.894
That happens in sobriety.

00:32:32.075 --> 00:32:35.795
Being sober does not make your life rosy and clean and perfect.

00:32:36.255 --> 00:32:44.924
But what it does, you know, what it does make is my ability to deal with it and manage it is off the scale easy.

00:32:44.924 --> 00:32:49.664
And, you know, my worst day, my best day sober.

00:32:49.755 --> 00:32:50.785
No, hang on, how does it go?

00:32:50.875 --> 00:32:57.214
My worst day sober is still better than my best day drunk.

00:32:57.855 --> 00:32:59.434
Yeah, I see where you're going, yeah, yeah.

00:32:59.700 --> 00:33:01.569
is, it's, life is,

00:33:02.605 --> 00:33:03.223
Infinitely better.

00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:04.970
infinitely easier.

00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:09.940
That's what, and I would say it's infinitely less anxiety inducing.

00:33:09.940 --> 00:33:12.930
And, yeah.

00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:19.309
used to cripple me and I'd, I'd, prior to Ben dying even, I'd been to AA meetings because I've, it has been problematic my whole life.

00:33:19.309 --> 00:33:20.900
It just exacerbated when he died.

00:33:21.732 --> 00:33:23.448
, I knew I had a problem with alcohol.

00:33:23.478 --> 00:33:25.367
You know, I, I've known for quite some time.

00:33:25.428 --> 00:33:36.167
Um, but you can talk yourself into many things and I, I ventured into AA and one of the questions I didn't realize you're not supposed to ask questions, so immediately kind of felt massively uncomfortable.

00:33:36.768 --> 00:33:41.147
And I said, well, for me, the problem is I feel such immense shame from the drinking.

00:33:41.968 --> 00:33:44.157
The only thing that will make it feel better is drinking.

00:33:45.008 --> 00:33:52.867
And I realised that that was the cycle I'd got into was drink all weekend, feel like shit, Wednesday rolls round, oh it's midweek, let's crack open a bottle.

00:33:53.268 --> 00:33:58.087
And you feel, then you feel, excuse me, then you feel hungover, so what do you do?

00:33:58.397 --> 00:34:00.188
Well, you might as well open another bottle, you know?

00:34:00.567 --> 00:34:03.077
And before you know it, you're drinking four or five nights a week.

00:34:03.482 --> 00:34:08.853
And the moments of sobriety are hung over, and that's a half life, that's not a full life.

00:34:09.782 --> 00:34:16.083
I, I want to be able to taste the food, and feel the, oh my god, the breeze in my face.

00:34:16.083 --> 00:34:16.844
Ha ha

00:34:17.117 --> 00:34:19.338
Listen, soon we're going to start using the word journey.

00:34:19.512 --> 00:34:19.893
ha.

00:34:20.867 --> 00:34:22.547
and then we're, everything's gone

00:34:22.603 --> 00:34:23.313
therapy bath?

00:34:23.313 --> 00:34:25.882
Ha ha ha ha

00:34:25.987 --> 00:34:26.688
taken it there.

00:34:26.788 --> 00:34:27.188
That's it.

00:34:27.217 --> 00:34:28.088
Nice talking to you.

00:34:28.088 --> 00:34:28.588
See you later.

00:34:28.588 --> 00:34:28.887
Bye.

00:34:29.128 --> 00:34:29.568
Um,

00:34:29.663 --> 00:34:31.483
meditating that I thought, oh god, this is it.

00:34:32.108 --> 00:34:33.288
No, meditating I love.

00:34:33.307 --> 00:34:34.018
I'm struggling.

00:34:34.018 --> 00:34:35.697
There's a great app that I found that helps me.

00:34:35.708 --> 00:34:37.248
It's like five to eight minutes, which is

00:34:37.407 --> 00:34:41.007
Um, I do, I use one called Rolling My Third Eye, which I love because it's slightly

00:34:41.057 --> 00:34:42.077
that's such a great

00:34:42.538 --> 00:34:43.378
Isn't it brilliant?

00:34:43.398 --> 00:34:47.027
And they do sort of really short ADHD friendly meditations.

00:34:47.418 --> 00:34:53.248
So what I do is because I don't want to be in the ice bath and I don't really want to meditate, I do both at the same time and it works really

00:34:53.288 --> 00:34:54.398
Two birds, one stone.

00:34:54.458 --> 00:34:55.998
Exactly, exactly.

00:34:56.188 --> 00:34:56.387
it.

00:34:57.038 --> 00:35:07.327
Um, but, yeah, it's, you know, recovery is, and you're right, it is about shame, and it's, it's, All sorts of shame.

00:35:07.327 --> 00:35:15.858
It's like present shame, which is I drank when I said I wasn't going to drink and now I feel hungover and I've been a dick to my kids and this that and the other and it's a lot of past shame, which is I don't know who I am.

00:35:15.858 --> 00:35:17.228
I haven't achieved what I wanted to achieve.

00:35:17.228 --> 00:35:19.847
I'm not fulfilling my potential and all of this stuff.

00:35:19.847 --> 00:35:28.858
And it's Brené Brown who said, and I live by this, you know, um, shame is guilt is I did a bad thing and shame is I am a bad thing.

00:35:29.307 --> 00:35:34.137
And it really resonates with me because guilt is really important.

00:35:34.842 --> 00:35:35.402
Like, we

00:35:35.518 --> 00:35:37.867
You've got to acknowledge what that, what you did, right?

00:35:37.963 --> 00:35:38.463
exactly.

00:35:38.463 --> 00:35:39.393
It's a signpost.

00:35:39.402 --> 00:35:45.043
That's what makes us, if we're feeling guilty, it's like, I did something bad, I did something wrong, I need to make it right.

00:35:45.682 --> 00:35:47.052
Good news, you can make it right.

00:35:47.353 --> 00:35:50.532
Like, you can go, you can own your shit, you can say, I'm really sorry I messed up.

00:35:51.043 --> 00:35:56.257
And, it doesn't matter what their response is, You've owned your part in it.

00:35:56.288 --> 00:35:57.978
You've kept your side of the street clean.

00:35:58.088 --> 00:35:58.708
You're good.

00:35:58.878 --> 00:35:59.628
Let go of it.

00:36:00.188 --> 00:36:01.398
Shame doesn't work like that.

00:36:01.398 --> 00:36:05.047
Shame is not helpful in any way, shape or form.

00:36:05.387 --> 00:36:09.788
But also it's, you know, it's pretty self indulgent.

00:36:09.847 --> 00:36:22.422
Like in the, if I'm going to be really savage about it, there is an element of us that's like, you know, we, we can choose to recognize What is our fault and what is our responsibility?

00:36:22.432 --> 00:36:30.043
Like, I used to feel lots and lots of shame about the fact that I would get blackout drunk and I was sexually assaulted, right?

00:36:30.402 --> 00:36:31.773
Lots of shame about that.

00:36:31.782 --> 00:36:32.983
It was my fault, it was my fault.

00:36:33.083 --> 00:36:34.023
No, it wasn't my fault.

00:36:34.373 --> 00:36:35.233
It was not my fault.

00:36:35.233 --> 00:36:41.952
I should be able to lie in the street naked, unconscious, and not expect a penis to be put inside me.

00:36:43.063 --> 00:36:43.202
The

00:36:43.338 --> 00:36:43.788
You'd think,

00:36:43.813 --> 00:36:44.273
can't.

00:36:44.483 --> 00:36:45.862
But the fact is, I can't.

00:36:46.083 --> 00:36:48.813
Now, we can have lots of talks about that, and that is devastating.

00:36:49.288 --> 00:36:53.248
I also know now that I have to accept the world the way it is and not the way I want it to be.

00:36:53.577 --> 00:36:56.728
So yes, it would be great if that was the case, but that's not the case.

00:36:56.967 --> 00:37:04.918
And so I learned that it was not my fault that that happened to me, but it is now my responsibility to keep myself safe.

00:37:05.277 --> 00:37:09.297
And that's like, so sobriety for me is like locking my doors at night.

00:37:09.418 --> 00:37:10.918
You know, we all lock our doors at

00:37:10.938 --> 00:37:11.318
to do.

00:37:11.847 --> 00:37:12.208
Me too.

00:37:12.597 --> 00:37:13.077
We all lock.

00:37:13.077 --> 00:37:14.577
I used to sometimes not even shut it.

00:37:14.887 --> 00:37:16.768
that was, yeah, that was one of my low moments.

00:37:17.168 --> 00:37:23.927
We all lock our doors at night because we know that there are bad people out there who, if we don't, will come in and take our stuff.

00:37:24.777 --> 00:37:27.117
We know that, and therefore we lock our doors.

00:37:27.297 --> 00:37:29.307
For me, sobriety is the same.

00:37:29.597 --> 00:37:34.717
I know that if I'm drunk, I'll probably end up in blackout and people, bad people will take advantage of me.

00:37:35.097 --> 00:37:39.248
And yeah, and you're right, and it doesn't even have to be as awful as a sexual assault.

00:37:39.257 --> 00:37:45.467
It's, you know, people taking advantage of the fact that you'll be buying the rounds, or, you know, everybody backs mine.

00:37:46.378 --> 00:37:55.768
Hearing you talk about sort of taking responsibility, um, it's, that really resonates because I say to my children a lot, don't say sorry, just stop doing it.

00:37:56.108 --> 00:38:03.077
You know, if you say, if I've, if it's the same thing, oh sorry, and I don't really want to hear sorry, I want to see a change in the behavior.

00:38:03.748 --> 00:38:10.077
So actually, I could say I was sorry till I was blue in the face to the people that I was hurting or the damage that I was doing to me.

00:38:10.518 --> 00:38:14.637
Um, but the only real way to take ownership and to make amends is to stop.

00:38:14.788 --> 00:38:16.367
And that's what we've done.

00:38:16.538 --> 00:38:19.958
And we've, it is brave and it is scary.

00:38:20.507 --> 00:38:22.737
But it's also incredibly freeing and liberating.

00:38:22.858 --> 00:38:26.507
And I don't know whether it's to do with hitting your forties.

00:38:26.907 --> 00:38:29.197
Just that kind of, well, this is who I am actually.

00:38:29.237 --> 00:38:31.438
And it's kind of take it or leave it.

00:38:32.068 --> 00:38:36.168
Um, Yeah,

00:38:36.438 --> 00:38:38.608
when I was 40, just after my 40th birthday.

00:38:38.608 --> 00:38:39.938
I think it was a theme there.

00:38:40.257 --> 00:38:42.427
But, God, I wish I'd done it earlier.

00:38:43.018 --> 00:38:47.148
Like, honestly, you know, I know people who've got sober and then 19,

00:38:47.213 --> 00:38:49.932
know, it's quite, like, cool to be sober now, isn't it?

00:38:50.027 --> 00:38:53.057
well, I also think I benefited from that, if I'm honest.

00:38:53.057 --> 00:38:54.128
You know, I really,

00:38:54.152 --> 00:38:55.443
We rode the wave, right?

00:38:55.512 --> 00:38:59.072
rode a, you know, I rode in on the sober chick train.

00:38:59.193 --> 00:39:06.262
You know, I'm not gonna sit here and say that it was hard, as hard for me as it was for people two, three, four, five, six, ten years ago.

00:39:06.293 --> 00:39:11.742
Like, the stigma is a lot less now than it, than it ever has been.

00:39:11.742 --> 00:39:13.523
And I think that's continuing to break down.

00:39:13.592 --> 00:39:15.842
I think people are still very uncomfortable with the word alcoholic.

00:39:15.842 --> 00:39:16.882
That's fine, I get it.

00:39:17.043 --> 00:39:21.552
You know, part of me is like, I hope that me using it helps people to embrace it as well.

00:39:21.552 --> 00:39:29.318
Because There's no reason why it should have any more stigma than celiac, you know, or anything like that.

00:39:29.498 --> 00:39:29.728
So

00:39:29.858 --> 00:39:31.557
I tend to say I'm in recovery.

00:39:31.608 --> 00:39:42.268
Um, I don't know why I don't say alcoholic, but um, I think perhaps because I felt that it gave you a name when you'd actually overcome something.

00:39:42.268 --> 00:39:46.387
But hearing you kind of reframe it, that's interesting.

00:39:46.708 --> 00:39:52.487
Because my dad will say, oh, he doesn't really need to anymore, but he would just say, oh, I'm in recovery.

00:39:53.467 --> 00:39:55.307
And I suppose I've just sort of copied that.

00:39:55.588 --> 00:39:56.148
Um,

00:39:56.358 --> 00:39:57.188
I mean it doesn't matter.

00:39:57.188 --> 00:40:00.677
It's, you know, everybody, everybody's sobriety is different.

00:40:00.677 --> 00:40:06.427
There's a million ways to get sober and you have to do what works for you.

00:40:06.467 --> 00:40:14.588
And there is an element of, you know, I do have a public platform and so there is an element of me knowing that, you know, if I can use that word.

00:40:15.202 --> 00:40:21.452
Without shame in that platform, then it's, but like I said at the beginning for me, I need it.

00:40:21.702 --> 00:40:22.702
I need that word.

00:40:22.702 --> 00:40:28.342
I need to wake up every morning and go, Oh, just remember, you're a crazy alcoholic, so you need to call your Jets today.

00:40:28.418 --> 00:40:28.918
Yeah.

00:40:29.092 --> 00:40:39.398
And if I don't say that, if I say, you've got a tricky relationship with alcohol, or you're a gray area drinker, I'll be like, okay, so let's head over to the white and I'll go and get A glass of Sauvignon Blanc.

00:40:39.407 --> 00:40:42.327
Like, if I'm only grey, I can drink occasionally.

00:40:42.547 --> 00:40:45.398
Or if I just have a problem with alcohol, then I can moderate.

00:40:45.577 --> 00:40:46.027
Do you know what?

00:40:46.038 --> 00:40:46.967
I probably could moderate.

00:40:46.967 --> 00:40:55.518
I probably could moderate, but let me tell you, I do not want to give up the brain space, the time and the energy to thinking about alcohol that much or that way.

00:40:55.568 --> 00:40:56.617
I'm not interested.

00:40:57.117 --> 00:41:03.057
I would rather just take it off the table and the biggest thing for sobriety well, two, sleep.

00:41:03.338 --> 00:41:08.668
I thought grown ups I thought you just grew up and there was stuff in your head, so you just woke up two or three times a night.

00:41:08.907 --> 00:41:09.867
That's apparently not the case.

00:41:09.867 --> 00:41:12.237
As soon as I got sober within seven days, I was sleeping through the night.

00:41:12.748 --> 00:41:12.987
That

00:41:13.068 --> 00:41:14.108
Do you not have to get up for a wee?

00:41:14.307 --> 00:41:15.277
Nope, not yet.

00:41:15.768 --> 00:41:18.907
Um, and the second thing is the time.

00:41:19.648 --> 00:41:20.958
Oh, yeah, the time.

00:41:20.998 --> 00:41:22.117
The time.

00:41:22.387 --> 00:41:27.137
Not just because I used to spend it drinking, but like being hungover or being

00:41:27.217 --> 00:41:29.268
slug day and pretend that it was fine.

00:41:29.507 --> 00:41:30.717
Yes, all of that.

00:41:30.748 --> 00:41:34.407
Or even just the time I would spend thinking about how I could get a next drink.

00:41:34.407 --> 00:41:37.628
Because I never drank in the morning, but you better believe I was thinking about it.

00:41:37.898 --> 00:41:45.007
I was thinking about whether I had enough wine, where I could go to get some wine, or whether I could call somebody up and go out for lunch and maybe start drinking a bit earlier.

00:41:45.518 --> 00:41:49.878
Um, but only ever in a very acceptable way, because we were at lunch, and that's what girls

00:41:49.893 --> 00:41:54.253
you're middle class and your children are turning up at school, clean and on time, so

00:41:55.168 --> 00:41:56.277
So it's really normal.

00:41:56.557 --> 00:42:09.733
Um, and And the time that that took up, I, I had no idea how much of a gift getting that time back was going to be.

00:42:09.922 --> 00:42:12.592
But did you find at first how long the evenings were?

00:42:12.672 --> 00:42:13.472
Because I was really

00:42:13.652 --> 00:42:18.083
to go to bed, I used to call my, friend and be like, it's like 8 o'clock, what am I doing?

00:42:18.682 --> 00:42:19.822
Should be like getting the bath go to bed.

00:42:21.143 --> 00:42:22.643
Yeah, you become really good friends with the bath.

00:42:22.702 --> 00:42:22.802
I

00:42:22.873 --> 00:42:24.552
yeah, got in the bath loads.

00:42:24.902 --> 00:42:26.563
She was like, get in the bath, go to bed, that's it.

00:42:26.733 --> 00:42:28.393
And I was like, okay, just go to bed.

00:42:29.043 --> 00:42:33.893
And I was like, and actually, obviously, that really helped because then I was getting a lot of sleep.

00:42:33.893 --> 00:42:43.873
And I was like, I feel incredible! Um, but it's, it is just this, it is a, it is a, uh, adjustment.

00:42:44.313 --> 00:42:48.092
And there is a lot that you have to adjust in quite a short space of time.

00:42:48.092 --> 00:42:53.452
But also I really looked at it like, there are people who have a problem with the word recovery.

00:42:53.802 --> 00:43:01.213
I think it's really important that we call it recovery because in my head it made me go, I am recovering.

00:43:01.213 --> 00:43:04.202
Therefore, I need to be gentle on myself.

00:43:04.603 --> 00:43:08.463
I need to cut out a lot of social stuff.

00:43:08.512 --> 00:43:08.682
I

00:43:08.753 --> 00:43:10.143
Bottomless branches aren't great

00:43:10.422 --> 00:43:10.842
Yeah.

00:43:10.893 --> 00:43:16.873
And I need to, if once I was like, I'm in recovery, I was like, I don't, I have to look after myself.

00:43:16.992 --> 00:43:19.222
I'm not well and I'm recovering from.

00:43:19.802 --> 00:43:26.713
40 years of really treating my head and my heart badly and

00:43:26.822 --> 00:43:27.492
really sad,

00:43:27.583 --> 00:43:51.137
and that recovery is really yeah but it's also so hopeful because it's there and you know recovery is for me it's gonna be lifelong you know I I am so grateful in some ways that I'm an alcoholic in fact in a lot of ways I'm so grateful because In sobriety, I am living a life I never thought possible.

00:43:51.137 --> 00:43:54.637
And that's not like, stuff and riches and all of that stuff.

00:43:54.637 --> 00:43:57.318
It's just that inner quiet, that peace.

00:43:57.318 --> 00:44:00.838
I wake up and I know I haven't pissed anybody off.

00:44:00.838 --> 00:44:02.137
I haven't upset anybody.

00:44:02.478 --> 00:44:04.378
I haven't lost something.

00:44:04.398 --> 00:44:05.677
I probably have

00:44:05.722 --> 00:44:07.563
Well, I was going to say, let's not get carried

00:44:07.657 --> 00:44:11.918
just had to fork out 525 for a new master key for the car because I lost that.

00:44:11.938 --> 00:44:12.918
I don't know how, I don't know

00:44:13.032 --> 00:44:14.932
got one clicker for our gate between all of us.

00:44:15.543 --> 00:44:21.713
I mean, honestly, so I'll still lose things, but now my husband doesn't get mad with me because now he's like, Well, what's left over is ADHD.

00:44:21.733 --> 00:44:24.463
Before, I just assumed it was because you were just pissed.

00:44:24.483 --> 00:44:27.853
Did your ADHD come to light when you got sober?

00:44:27.853 --> 00:44:28.972
Because mine did.

00:44:29.112 --> 00:44:34.992
Yeah, so my therapist, uh, well, it had always been there.

00:44:35.168 --> 00:44:38.157
yeah, oh yes, it's just, it lays, you hide it, you, you

00:44:38.222 --> 00:44:46.273
but it was, it was my therapist that was like, I'd be really interested, have you ever thought about being, um, assessed for ADHD?

00:44:46.273 --> 00:44:47.193
And I was like, no.

00:44:47.313 --> 00:44:50.632
And she sent me a link for like, symptoms, and I read them out to Jimmy without telling him.

00:44:51.257 --> 00:44:53.878
What it was and I said, does this sound like me?

00:44:53.947 --> 00:44:57.538
It's like, he's like, that is exactly what's fucking wrong with you.

00:44:57.697 --> 00:44:58.237
What is it?

00:44:58.237 --> 00:45:00.668
I was like, I was like, it's ADHD.

00:45:00.748 --> 00:45:02.447
He's like, well, that makes a lot of sense.

00:45:02.467 --> 00:45:10.557
So I was diagnosed and what I found was, uh, once I was diagnosed, I got worse.

00:45:11.552 --> 00:45:13.112
Right, this is a thing, isn't it?

00:45:13.112 --> 00:45:15.672
Because I've, I was diagnosed with ADHD.

00:45:15.932 --> 00:45:18.063
Similar situation actually, a friend was diagnosed.

00:45:18.152 --> 00:45:20.402
She said to me, I think you might have ADHD.

00:45:20.773 --> 00:45:23.322
I went, fuck off, thinking it was just for,

00:45:23.338 --> 00:45:23.797
How rude.

00:45:24.077 --> 00:45:24.838
Naughty boys.

00:45:25.132 --> 00:45:25.793
son as well, right?

00:45:25.793 --> 00:45:59.523
So I'm, I'm, it's not like I'm completely Out of this area, but I just thought, no I'm not, I still pictured really little boys and, um, and anyway, so I was quite pissed off with this friend and then in therapy I said to my long suffering counsellor, Oh, you won't believe it, one of my friends said that she thought I might be ADHD, and she sort of went, I was going to be bringing this up with you actually, um, So I did go off, and obviously in a very ADHD fashion, immediately just get a private diagnosis, and you know, did it really quickly, which I'm very fortunate to be able to do, and I started taking medication.

00:46:00.117 --> 00:46:09.478
And I found that the medication kind of dialled down the ADHD, but what surfaced was this latent autism or Asperger's that I never in a million years thought I had.

00:46:09.967 --> 00:46:14.057
And so of course I then got diagnosed with that as well, because I like to collect acronyms.

00:46:14.547 --> 00:46:18.527
And I believe the term is ADHD because the crossover is like 80 90%.

00:46:18.547 --> 00:46:21.077
You know, if you've got one, you've got to sprinkle the other for sure.

00:46:21.547 --> 00:46:24.347
Um, And I do take medication for ADHD.

00:46:24.407 --> 00:46:25.797
Uh, it's problematic at times.

00:46:25.797 --> 00:46:30.117
I don't know whether you take meds, but it's, uh, the supply chain is, there's issues.

00:46:30.117 --> 00:46:46.068
But, it, yeah, so the sobriety allowed the ADHD to show, and the ADHD allowed the autism to show, but I kind of like knowing now, and for my son, actually, um, I mean, we've always been incredibly close.

00:46:46.128 --> 00:46:54.358
Uh, I nearly lost him at birth, so But, to know that we were both kind of the same has given him this lovely connection to me, which is really special.

00:46:54.717 --> 00:47:12.873
And, um, the whole household, it's kind of a fairly It's a nice I mean, my house is a nice, calm house, which it shouldn't be because it's got four kids in it, but It's a Nora Spicey house, you know, so I can say I'm, I've got, I'm learning to say to the kids, I'm getting overwhelmed, you need to just shut up.

00:47:13.182 --> 00:47:15.623
Instead of screaming, shut up at them.

00:47:16.402 --> 00:47:18.643
Because I didn't recognise what it was.

00:47:19.117 --> 00:47:23.478
No, and I think when I, for me, it was more when I was diagnosed, I started to unmask.

00:47:23.487 --> 00:47:33.958
So a lot, when I was 26, 27, I was diagnosed with depression for the first time and my depression manifested in this like absolute dropping of my basket.

00:47:33.958 --> 00:47:37.668
Like I just, it was almost like a breakdown, a burnout.

00:47:37.918 --> 00:47:41.702
It was like I would literally physically collapse, the formula, I can't carry on.

00:47:42.443 --> 00:47:48.972
And so I would go on to antidepressants and then about 8 months to a year later I'd come off them, I'd be fine for a few years and then I'd crash again.

00:47:49.733 --> 00:48:11.092
And then when I was diagnosed with ADHD, the psychiatrist is looking through my history and he's like, look, I think, actually you haven't I don't think it's depression, I think what you've been struggling with is ADHD burnout, looking at the cycle, and so I'd been masking so tightly, you know, I would have severe time anxiety, I'd have to, I knew I was always late, so I would turn up three days early for things, you know, I

00:48:11.282 --> 00:48:13.563
Oh, I've turned up for flights early and, think days earlier.

00:48:13.563 --> 00:48:16.382
yeah,

00:48:17.043 --> 00:48:33.333
because something wasn't in the right place, because if, because if it wasn't in the right place, I was going to lose it, but it, it was, and it was just, I was just so, like, you Unknowingly, just trying to cover all these ADHD defects which I had been made to feel made me into a useless human being.

00:48:33.702 --> 00:48:38.963
I was described as, um, uh, dippy by, by somebody not that, not that long ago.

00:48:39.052 --> 00:48:47.003
And I, and I thought, that's the, the mantra that's been in my head, you know, that kind of bloody hell Rosie, or fuck's sake Rosie, because I've lost something again, you know.

00:48:47.132 --> 00:48:47.913
Scatterbrain.

00:48:47.963 --> 00:48:48.123
I

00:48:48.143 --> 00:48:50.913
earring down the floorboards, just the other day, you know.

00:48:50.913 --> 00:48:56.052
And I feel so, like, it's not that I don't value the stuff, it's not that I don't treasure the stuff.

00:48:56.083 --> 00:49:01.422
It's just, I'm And to say I'm incapable feels like you're surrendering.

00:49:01.722 --> 00:49:04.373
Because I am capable, but I have to accept my limitations.

00:49:04.373 --> 00:49:07.112
And

00:49:07.193 --> 00:49:09.722
I am very uncapable in a lot of ways as well.

00:49:09.882 --> 00:49:12.472
And I think it is, for me I have to surrender to that.

00:49:12.543 --> 00:49:15.003
I have to go, the stuff I'm really fucking mad at.

00:49:15.413 --> 00:49:17.913
Like looking after keys and turning up to appointments.

00:49:18.813 --> 00:49:22.083
I will lock myself out of the house three times a week and I will forget.

00:49:22.132 --> 00:49:24.652
Like, you know, I'm okay with that.

00:49:25.152 --> 00:49:25.913
Do you know what I've got?

00:49:26.043 --> 00:49:26.693
PIN code.

00:49:27.302 --> 00:49:32.063
Uh, I know, you see, I talked about this, but then Jimmy was like, uh, I don't know.

00:49:32.063 --> 00:49:34.242
Anyway, the point is, we've now got a lockbox.

00:49:34.902 --> 00:49:36.713
Um, for which I can never obviously remember the

00:49:36.782 --> 00:49:37.402
The code?

00:49:37.443 --> 00:49:37.672
No!

00:49:37.773 --> 00:49:40.123
can always, I always have to text Jimmy and go, what's the code for the box?

00:49:40.193 --> 00:49:43.063
Anyway, um, but the unmasking was really important.

00:49:43.152 --> 00:49:44.813
I remember Jimmy going, you are worse.

00:49:45.132 --> 00:49:45.532
Yeah,

00:49:45.623 --> 00:49:46.172
And I am,

00:49:46.213 --> 00:49:47.233
I making this up?

00:49:47.353 --> 00:49:50.032
yeah, but I am, but my anxiety is less.

00:49:50.373 --> 00:49:50.913
Yes.

00:49:50.952 --> 00:49:51.612
Because you're allowing

00:49:51.827 --> 00:50:00.088
is much, much less and the diagnosis has not just allowed me to, like, stop being so hard on myself.

00:50:00.438 --> 00:50:07.938
But it's also given Jimmy and the kids a more understanding about why I am the way I am

00:50:08.043 --> 00:50:09.193
An explanation.

00:50:09.487 --> 00:50:16.637
You know, and it's not always an excuse, like, you know, I can veer into the territory of going, Oh, it's ADHD, Jimmy's like, mm, come on,

00:50:16.838 --> 00:50:17.947
No, that's just you being a bit shit.

00:50:18.233 --> 00:50:19.152
Yeah, um,

00:50:19.557 --> 00:50:19.898
actually

00:50:19.963 --> 00:50:25.512
but it is an explanation for a lot of things and that's been really empowering.

00:50:26.077 --> 00:50:30.867
I absolutely agree, and I think explanation not excuse is really clear as well.

00:50:31.277 --> 00:50:37.128
So one of the things that you talk about is kind of carrying all this stuff when you're a mother, right?

00:50:37.248 --> 00:50:41.572
And Did you create the term mental load or, or you,

00:50:41.693 --> 00:50:43.543
no, I created the list.

00:50:43.652 --> 00:50:51.202
The list I, I, I think is wonderful and I, um, I do my lists in, when I'm, it's actually a sign I'm about to spiral, I'm about to burn out.

00:50:51.702 --> 00:50:55.572
And I will do this list in my notes and then I will print it and it will be nine pages long.

00:50:55.943 --> 00:50:57.992
And it's all the stuff that's in my head that needs to be done.

00:50:57.992 --> 00:51:05.353
And, John is very patient and he'll be like, do you really need to paint the wall in Tabby's room, like right now?

00:51:05.373 --> 00:51:07.202
Does that need to be on today's to do list?

00:51:07.983 --> 00:51:17.322
But it's just, the mental load, and it sounds a bit like I'm sort of blowing smoke up your backside here a bit, but understanding that the mental load was a real thing.

00:51:18.057 --> 00:51:22.057
And that I wasn't a shit mum because I didn't like aspects of motherhood.

00:51:22.668 --> 00:51:23.947
I love my children.

00:51:24.068 --> 00:51:29.617
I love them, I would, you know, as any mother would, I would work through, walk through burning fire for them.

00:51:30.217 --> 00:51:34.338
But what I do not like is the parent mails that pop up 97 times a day.

00:51:34.398 --> 00:51:39.907
And the pounds that I have to remember for four different schools, for four different wear silly socks days.

00:51:39.907 --> 00:51:43.047
And that, my brain is not designed for this at all.

00:51:43.242 --> 00:51:45.172
over and over again, no brainers, like.

00:51:46.367 --> 00:51:48.818
You can love your children and not love the job of motherhood.

00:51:49.197 --> 00:52:03.972
And I think that's a really important distinction because if you are genuinely telling me that you really loved, loved spending time picking up socks that they've stuffed down things or dried apple cores from under pillows or like

00:52:04.202 --> 00:52:04.543
Mm hmm.

00:52:04.603 --> 00:52:07.112
So, uh, bananas that have been in there a term.

00:52:07.648 --> 00:52:07.978
you know.

00:52:08.617 --> 00:52:14.117
Or, like, answering 700 emails a day, or filling in the bloody lunch choices for your

00:52:14.302 --> 00:52:14.983
Oh, we forgot

00:52:15.047 --> 00:52:17.398
the next, for the next 45 days.

00:52:17.418 --> 00:52:23.318
You know, it's okay to get overwhelmed and say, I don't like that, I don't like it, it stresses me out.

00:52:23.347 --> 00:52:25.077
It, it is stressful.

00:52:25.362 --> 00:52:27.943
And it's much more stressful than it was when our parents had to

00:52:28.007 --> 00:52:29.268
more stressful.

00:52:29.632 --> 00:52:34.422
just having your phone on you all the time so you see the email pop up rather than a letter coming home from school,

00:52:34.518 --> 00:52:35.027
also, they didn't,

00:52:35.103 --> 00:52:40.507
that you have to do Yeah.

00:52:40.577 --> 00:52:42.458
is like, there's quite a lot to be said for 80s parenting.

00:52:42.697 --> 00:52:43.458
Not all of it.

00:52:43.507 --> 00:52:46.208
Emotionally, really bad, generally.

00:52:46.398 --> 00:52:48.338
Emotionally, not great.

00:52:48.827 --> 00:52:57.208
But, actually the logistics of 80s parenting, this kind of, we can send them to anybody, like, yeah, can you have my kids?

00:52:57.358 --> 00:53:00.628
Like, you know, that kind of like, let's just get

00:53:00.797 --> 00:53:02.927
and just walk to school, and

00:53:03.233 --> 00:53:05.992
like, obviously there's safety issues, but there were safety issues then as well.

00:53:05.992 --> 00:53:10.293
Like, let's be honest, there were, and it is, and it is very much, I think we are far more risk averse.

00:53:10.302 --> 00:53:17.643
And obviously when it comes to kids, we have to be risk averse, but I do think that we are sometimes risk averse to our own detriment.

00:53:18.003 --> 00:53:27.922
And there are, there are things that I think, you know, I live in a really shitty area, I'm not going to let my kids walk the dog round the park on their own.

00:53:28.938 --> 00:53:29.907
Because of the area.

00:53:29.978 --> 00:53:31.978
If we lived in a nicer area, absolutely.

00:53:32.088 --> 00:53:33.108
I would let them do it.

00:53:33.447 --> 00:53:39.458
You know, I make a decision, if I have to leave them for five minutes in the house to run to the shop to get some bread, I'll do that.

00:53:40.387 --> 00:53:47.097
But, you know, in the eight, we need to, I think, in the eighties it was two lakhs, now we're way too tight.

00:53:47.307 --> 00:53:48.907
We're holding onto this way too tightly.

00:53:48.918 --> 00:53:52.047
It needs to be some sort of middle ground because we are the ones suffering.

00:53:52.398 --> 00:53:54.057
And we're not asking for help.

00:53:54.943 --> 00:53:58.842
And I hate to say this, but there's lots of people that go, well, they should just know, the men.

00:53:59.722 --> 00:54:00.833
No, why?

00:54:01.543 --> 00:54:03.233
We only know because we learn that from

00:54:03.257 --> 00:54:04.668
And it's all in here as well.

00:54:04.782 --> 00:54:06.512
learnt behaviour from our mums.

00:54:06.512 --> 00:54:11.592
We, we, by osmosis, by modelling, wherever it was, we saw our mums.

00:54:11.592 --> 00:54:14.822
It is natural for girls to look to their mums to model their behaviour.

00:54:15.213 --> 00:54:17.182
And the boys look to their dads generally.

00:54:17.202 --> 00:54:18.333
And that's what they learnt.

00:54:18.333 --> 00:54:20.873
And so no, they didn't grow up learning this stuff.

00:54:21.202 --> 00:54:22.202
It's not their fault.

00:54:22.413 --> 00:54:24.833
It is now their responsibility to get on board with it.

00:54:25.023 --> 00:54:28.452
But it is also our responsibility to be prepared to teach a little bit.

00:54:28.742 --> 00:54:30.672
And to be open to letting go of some control.

00:54:30.672 --> 00:54:32.963
Because I don't know about you, but I'm a massive control freak.

00:54:33.458 --> 00:54:34.057
so much.

00:54:34.057 --> 00:54:36.217
And I've got a, I dunno how old you, you've got two girls.

00:54:36.217 --> 00:54:36.967
Do you have two girls?

00:54:36.967 --> 00:54:39.188
I, so I, my oldest is at secondary now.

00:54:39.188 --> 00:54:39.938
He's in year nine.

00:54:39.938 --> 00:54:49.717
And, um, the first time he went to get the bus, I mean, the horrors that were filling my mind of what might become him, um, as it happens, the first secondary school was quite shit.

00:54:49.722 --> 00:54:50.438
And I did move him.

00:54:50.438 --> 00:54:52.088
But that, that's a whole other story.

00:54:52.387 --> 00:55:00.217
But, you know, he goes off in the morning, headphones on, off to the, uh, where the mini bus picks him up and he's out in the world now.

00:55:00.762 --> 00:55:06.682
And I look at, I've got two in year six, and I'm thinking, Okay, one's in a specialist provision, so he will stay there.

00:55:07.092 --> 00:55:13.463
But the other one, you know, the, uh, secondary school that's down the road from us, she wants to go there, so she'll be walking down the road and back.

00:55:13.483 --> 00:55:14.902
And it's just nuts to think

00:55:14.978 --> 00:55:24.577
Well, and also though, your husband, like your partner, the person you live with, you can't, like, stop micromanaging him because that is a lot of that mental load and yes it's going to take a while.

00:55:24.847 --> 00:55:30.407
Like I'm not, like I do get frustrated when women are like, yeah, but if I'm writing a list it's just another job for me to do.

00:55:30.777 --> 00:55:39.257
I'm like, well, you can't have it both ways, like you have to accept that there is going to be a period of adjustment where you are saying, I need this.

00:55:39.907 --> 00:55:40.978
This is what I need you to do.

00:55:41.007 --> 00:55:44.628
So when I wrote the mental load list, I was like, this is, uh, this is done now.

00:55:45.097 --> 00:55:47.577
Like, put it in front of your partner or whoever.

00:55:47.648 --> 00:55:52.407
It's not there to facilitate a passive aggressive, you know, here, see, this is what

00:55:52.463 --> 00:55:53.402
This is what I do.

00:55:53.938 --> 00:55:54.557
It's not that.

00:55:54.688 --> 00:55:59.108
It's very much a, a, a document that I created so that you could both go through it.

00:55:59.108 --> 00:56:04.047
Because the reality is, like you said before, we do need to look at it and go, well, that's probably not completely necessary.

00:56:04.507 --> 00:56:05.498
Um, and actually,

00:56:05.807 --> 00:56:08.708
that They don't think needs doing or hadn't thought about.

00:56:09.182 --> 00:56:09.532
They don't

00:56:09.538 --> 00:56:10.958
I have to say John is very good.

00:56:11.157 --> 00:56:11.358
I

00:56:11.503 --> 00:56:12.483
And so's Jimmy.

00:56:12.532 --> 00:56:15.052
But only because we've had this conversation.

00:56:15.402 --> 00:56:16.952
And it's not always been easy.

00:56:16.983 --> 00:56:18.083
And it has been fraught.

00:56:18.333 --> 00:56:27.652
But, there is no You know, we can come at this with kindness and go, I'm gonna assume the person I married isn't actually a massive dick.

00:56:28.262 --> 00:56:36.563
And I'm going to assume that if I communicate myself properly, not wait until I get to the point where I'm slamming doors and going, Nobody helps me around here and I've

00:56:36.668 --> 00:56:38.418
is me, this is me.

00:56:38.463 --> 00:56:46.693
If I take time, this is again what the mental load list was, like download the mental load list and say, an organised time, when the kids are in bed, can we sit down and have a chat about this?

00:56:46.902 --> 00:56:52.222
So that you're not mad, you're not angry, but you're going, this is what's on my head.

00:56:52.757 --> 00:56:52.918
And

00:56:52.943 --> 00:56:53.913
know, or a version of this.

00:56:54.297 --> 00:56:56.827
telling the children or requesting the children help.

00:56:56.858 --> 00:57:00.907
I just, I, I, I was getting mad at them for not helping.

00:57:01.268 --> 00:57:02.648
But I hadn't actually asked them for help.

00:57:02.722 --> 00:57:10.293
Yeah, so that's another thing, we use the mental load list, so we use a smaller, I use a smaller version every weekend, and I put down a list of things that need doing that weekend.

00:57:10.663 --> 00:57:12.822
Often they're the same, like, empty the bins, whatever.

00:57:12.887 --> 00:57:13.407
Pick up the dog poo.

00:57:13.873 --> 00:57:25.492
And I go, right, I've put my name, and I'll put my initials by the things I'm gonna do, which are still the biggest jobs, let's be clear, they're still, you know, but there's plenty of other shit that they can do, and I go, you write your initials by the

00:57:25.958 --> 00:57:26.288
Yeah.

00:57:26.418 --> 00:57:29.538
It's so funny because I've just started doing something very similar with a blackboard in my kitchen.

00:57:29.998 --> 00:57:33.148
And um, it literally just says, you know, bring your laundry down at the moment.

00:57:33.157 --> 00:57:36.347
But I want to gradually, particularly because I have boys as well.

00:57:36.347 --> 00:57:37.358
I have two girls, two boys.

00:57:37.387 --> 00:57:44.407
And I don't want the girls to naturally fall into the role of tidying up or loading the dishwasher while the boys go off to their rooms and play Xbox.

00:57:45.057 --> 00:58:10.487
I want to raise them to be You know, men that participate in family life should they choose to have families, but and I Just I hadn't I don't think heard the term mental load before I came across it from your your Instagram page and it did And particularly as an ADHD, uh, we do hold so much in our heads and it's it's I mean, there's lots of different ways of describing I like the buzzy bees and

00:58:10.547 --> 00:58:11.128
machine head.

00:58:11.228 --> 00:58:16.128
Yeah, and I just can't grab onto the thoughts, and I just find being able to write them down or list them.

00:58:16.447 --> 00:58:20.777
I do, um, occasionally go what I call, uh, Vanessa Feltz in The Big Brother House.

00:58:20.818 --> 00:58:23.047
I don't know, you're the right age to get the reference, you see.

00:58:23.358 --> 00:58:24.858
Some of the mums at school look at me like I'm mental.

00:58:25.128 --> 00:58:36.788
And it's where I just get, like, I've got chalk pens, and I just start writing on, like, the oven and the fridge, all the things that are in my head, and the kids are like, Whoa! Um, because I sometimes think they need to see what I've,

00:58:36.978 --> 00:58:45.297
need to see, it's not like, this again, I think this goes back to this like, we do, we don't give our kids enough credit, actually.

00:58:45.358 --> 00:58:46.668
Um, they're much more capable.

00:58:47.003 --> 00:58:50.313
They're so capable and they might not, they might not like doing it.

00:58:50.362 --> 00:58:51.322
I don't like doing it

00:58:51.643 --> 00:58:52.733
No, I don't bloody like doing it.

00:58:52.802 --> 00:58:54.092
I certainly don't like doing it for six people.

00:58:54.492 --> 00:59:05.023
yeah, I'm prepared to have that battle because it, it's really important that everybody realizes that I work really hard to keep this happening.

00:59:05.052 --> 00:59:05.983
You know, it's like a business.

00:59:05.992 --> 00:59:06.643
It's running a business

00:59:06.782 --> 00:59:07.552
Yeah, it is.

00:59:07.632 --> 00:59:08.273
It's a full time

00:59:08.302 --> 00:59:10.623
it's like running a business and you'd be fucking fired.

00:59:10.922 --> 00:59:11.532
That's what you say

00:59:11.612 --> 00:59:14.043
And your husband works away quite a lot, doesn't he?

00:59:14.342 --> 00:59:14.922
yeah, he does.

00:59:15.182 --> 00:59:22.672
Yeah, so Ben did, um, his business was based out in France and, um, I mean, he only really ever went maximum kind of a week at a time.

00:59:22.672 --> 00:59:25.282
It felt, felt a long time at the time.

00:59:25.282 --> 00:59:27.233
Not so, uh, not, it doesn't seem so long

00:59:27.342 --> 00:59:27.762
so much now.

00:59:28.193 --> 00:59:33.012
No, um, and I Funnily enough, I used to get into this way of sort of, like, parenting.

00:59:33.233 --> 00:59:37.103
So first of all, I'd be really upset he was gone, then I'd get into, like, this couple of days where I was just nailing it.

00:59:37.393 --> 00:59:39.873
And then he'd come back, and I'd be like, no, no, no, no, this is how we do it.

00:59:39.932 --> 00:59:43.262
And it's almost like they come back in, and you've managed on your own.

00:59:43.782 --> 00:59:47.603
Um, and so that must be quite difficult when he comes back from tour.

00:59:47.753 --> 01:00:02.293
it's a very, very tricky, I would say that's probably been our biggest challenge on an ongoing basis, is managing that transition from him being around to him going away to him coming back.

01:00:02.463 --> 01:00:03.362
Because you adjust, don't you?

01:00:03.362 --> 01:00:05.175
Yeah.

01:00:05.293 --> 01:00:07.333
obviously having him around is brilliant, I love it.

01:00:07.333 --> 01:00:11.382
And when we're in that, when we're, like, when that's the default, brilliant.

01:00:11.932 --> 01:00:15.722
And then, the week up to him leaving is always tricky because everybody's on edge.

01:00:16.112 --> 01:00:19.193
And then he goes, and I'm like, okay, we're in it now.

01:00:19.293 --> 01:00:24.152
And then, in some ways it's easier because it's my way or the highway, I don't have to negotiate another grown up.

01:00:24.182 --> 01:00:26.813
You know, everybody's playing by the same rules, it's easy.

01:00:28.242 --> 01:00:30.262
And then he comes home and it all goes to shit again.

01:00:30.632 --> 01:00:51.813
And Recognizing that pattern was really important and just realizing that having him accept that he needed to be mindful of that really important and, um, and you do, you know, you do get used to it but transitions, whatever they look like, are hard.

01:00:51.938 --> 01:00:54.938
particularly if you are neurodivergent, transitions are hard.

01:00:54.998 --> 01:01:01.047
And that's what I'm learning to kind of, the self love, uh, goal is difficult.

01:01:01.108 --> 01:01:08.088
I think to love yourself is quite a big ask, especially if you come from a place of being, um, so down on yourself.

01:01:08.117 --> 01:01:12.307
Um, I, I come across as very confident, but I'm quite, I'm actually, I have quite low self esteem.

01:01:13.208 --> 01:01:13.427
So.

01:01:14.197 --> 01:01:35.898
I mean, I think aiming for acceptance is kind of, um, good enough sometimes, and, and by doing that, you grant yourself the same equity that you might a friend, or you might, my, my child, you know, I don't, I, I give Hector, you know, scheduled times of when we're going to be leaving the house, and, you know, regular reminders, and, so, I'm learning to do the same for myself.

01:01:35.898 --> 01:01:39.648
I've got the blackboard, you know, where I write, what time I have to leave the house for each thing, each day.

01:01:40.007 --> 01:01:48.018
Um, I have alarms going off constantly on my phone, but for now, that's, that's what needs to be done and I, um, to, to help manage.

01:01:48.018 --> 01:01:53.387
I mean, as I said, I take the A DH ADHD meds, but, um, I have been on Prozac for nearly 20 years.

01:01:54.077 --> 01:01:56.838
Um, I suffered horribly from bulimia as a teenager.

01:01:56.927 --> 01:01:59.088
Also, I suspect related to the A DHD.

01:02:00.112 --> 01:02:04.512
And I came off those because I thought I want to see what lies beneath.

01:02:04.822 --> 01:02:07.532
Um, it was messy.

01:02:07.842 --> 01:02:15.802
Um, and I recently made the decision, or fairly recently, to go back on them because I thought, at the moment, I'm in the eye of the storm.

01:02:15.963 --> 01:02:18.782
I have a young, my youngest is six, my oldest is thirteen.

01:02:19.413 --> 01:02:27.342
I still have to do soft play, uh, flip out, um, ninja warrior, all the things that are very overwhelming in a sensory way.

01:02:28.193 --> 01:02:34.193
And actually taking some sertraline helps the anxiety and the overwhelm.

01:02:34.663 --> 01:02:37.293
And I just thought, why am I making my life difficult?

01:02:37.342 --> 01:02:39.072
Why don't I take what's offered to me?

01:02:39.103 --> 01:02:41.193
Because I was very much, I'm not having the ADHD meds.

01:02:41.193 --> 01:02:42.503
I'm not, it's a bit like motherhood.

01:02:42.532 --> 01:02:45.003
I'm, I'm gonna, you know, white knock all this.

01:02:45.483 --> 01:02:59.177
Um, and I found I'd like to come off them, um, but I just think right now, I think you, the crutch that I used for so long is no longer serving me, so I will use something a little healthier.

01:02:59.393 --> 01:03:01.773
think you have to give up what's gonna kill you first, you

01:03:01.858 --> 01:03:02.157
exactly.

01:03:02.157 --> 01:03:02.887
It's Briony Gordon I

01:03:02.913 --> 01:03:03.572
thing, yeah,

01:03:03.697 --> 01:03:03.838
it?

01:03:03.838 --> 01:03:04.168
Yeah.

01:03:04.452 --> 01:03:14.202
I mean it's, it's quite a well known phrase, um, but you give up what's gonna kill you first, and so it's, you know, I gave up booze, and then I've just managed to give up smoking,

01:03:14.568 --> 01:03:15.217
Oh, have you?

01:03:15.592 --> 01:03:16.302
should probably give

01:03:16.458 --> 01:03:17.047
Well done.

01:03:17.072 --> 01:03:17.992
sugar, or at least

01:03:18.257 --> 01:03:19.878
No, just give yourself a break.

01:03:19.887 --> 01:03:20.197
Life's

01:03:20.262 --> 01:03:22.773
I, no, but I eat sugar like I used to drink wine.

01:03:23.092 --> 01:03:27.083
Well, I had no sweet tooth at all, at all, until I stopped drinking.

01:03:27.547 --> 01:03:30.918
I will binge, like I'll binge it in a really, it does need to be sorted.

01:03:31.237 --> 01:03:39.978
Um, but the reality is, is, you know, I don't know why we have such a stigma against this, this kind of medication.

01:03:40.677 --> 01:03:43.677
Um, but it works.

01:03:43.677 --> 01:03:53.628
And if it were like, I, you know, it's I thought I could do without my search lead as well and I came off it because, no, despite not being able to find it anywhere on the internet that said, Sure, just stop at Cold Turkey, you'll be fine.

01:03:53.987 --> 01:03:56.487
I was like, I was like, I will be fine.

01:03:56.847 --> 01:04:00.967
Because that is the addict in me going, Well, I'm, I'm different to everybody else.

01:04:01.568 --> 01:04:05.297
And, uh, you know, there's a lot of addiction fuelled by ego.

01:04:05.557 --> 01:04:07.958
And, um, so I was like, anyway, I wasn't fine.

01:04:07.958 --> 01:04:08.597
And I crashed.

01:04:08.617 --> 01:04:10.148
And, uh, I'm now back on it.

01:04:10.148 --> 01:04:11.748
And like you, it's like, now's not the right time.

01:04:12.057 --> 01:04:13.297
First of all, I hate the winter.

01:04:13.617 --> 01:04:13.998
I hate the

01:04:14.222 --> 01:04:14.713
Yeah, I

01:04:14.927 --> 01:04:16.007
I'm really bad.

01:04:16.012 --> 01:04:19.443
we need to book our summer holiday in the winter and, like, why, why are we going away in the summer?

01:04:19.443 --> 01:04:19.963
It's stupid.

01:04:20.137 --> 01:04:24.398
I really am bad in the winter, so I was like, you know, I'm just going to get back on them and stay on them until spring.

01:04:24.398 --> 01:04:26.867
And then, I'm going to talk to my doctor about it.

01:04:27.237 --> 01:04:31.918
Like a regular human being, and recognize that I am not in control of everything and I don't know best.

01:04:31.927 --> 01:04:34.248
And I'm going to hand it over to the professionals, because

01:04:34.273 --> 01:04:35.893
Yeah, and surrendering.

01:04:36.342 --> 01:04:39.443
to the professionals is again, it's it's a loss of control.

01:04:39.913 --> 01:04:46.302
Um, and I've put my hands in my myself in the care of a psychiatrist who's managing the medication.

01:04:46.333 --> 01:04:52.132
And then I'm seeing a gynecologist because, um, my mood swings were just getting so awful.

01:04:52.202 --> 01:04:57.472
And, um, You know, perimenopause is another hot topic, right?

01:04:57.932 --> 01:05:04.773
So, I'm about three months into HRT and I have to say I am finding life much more manageable.

01:05:04.773 --> 01:05:08.342
Oh,

01:05:09.083 --> 01:05:17.213
It's, you know, we, I think it's really something that we struggle with as women a lot, a lot of, you know, a lot of this is stuff that we're told we should be able to cope with.

01:05:17.322 --> 01:05:20.733
my mum! Even my mum was like, I didn't struggle, you'll be fine.

01:05:20.733 --> 01:05:23.543
I was like, Mum, you anaesthetic.

01:05:23.543 --> 01:05:25.862
I've not been able to give birth at all, so maybe we're

01:05:26.123 --> 01:05:26.742
and also,

01:05:26.922 --> 01:05:27.193
the same.

01:05:28.092 --> 01:05:34.793
you know, and also I don't think they're always very honest, you know, I think the previous generation, you know, haven't yet.

01:05:35.092 --> 01:05:46.443
leaned into the reality of what their situation was because they weren't, they weren't allowed to, you know, and, and we've been able to bust through that stigma and our kids will, we'll break through other stigmas that we're not able to do.

01:05:46.443 --> 01:05:53.123
And eventually, you know, we might make it into some sort of state of peace and then the world will explode because we've, you

01:05:53.208 --> 01:05:53.768
Ruined it.

01:05:54.172 --> 01:05:55.023
we're in debt, broken it.

01:05:55.032 --> 01:06:19.652
But the point is it's a very, It's a, it's a, I find myself sober in an incredible space for whatever reason because it's the meds or sobriety or the work I'm doing or therapy, but I'm very, very grateful that, you know, essentially the worst thing that happened to me is bringing the best version of my life into being.

01:06:19.652 --> 01:06:20.512
And that's,

01:06:20.887 --> 01:06:21.617
Oh, that's nice.

01:06:21.697 --> 01:06:27.577
I like that because that's really applicable to me as well and I use Ben as the worst, he wasn't the worst thing that

01:06:27.603 --> 01:06:28.992
no, but what happened was

01:06:29.083 --> 01:06:47.003
happened to him and it forced me, because it pushed my drinking to a really kind of unmanageable level and it sort of forced me to go back and confront a lot of And actually, sobriety, I've had to regrieve because you don't grieve when you're drinking properly.

01:06:47.512 --> 01:06:51.052
So it's been, that's been a heavy load to carry this year.

01:06:51.052 --> 01:06:55.532
It's been, it's, that, that, it's not the sobriety that's been difficult, it's been the kind of going back and reliving things.

01:06:55.532 --> 01:06:58.932
But I, I, like you, it's given me a career.

01:06:59.003 --> 01:07:02.373
You know, it's, I'm sitting, I couldn't have sat and done this.

01:07:02.463 --> 01:07:08.822
You know, I record two, three times a week and I would have either got drunk beforehand or I'd have bottled it.

01:07:08.833 --> 01:07:08.853
Um.

01:07:09.947 --> 01:07:22.467
It's, who knows where it'll lead, and I'm only 40, and this is the thing, 40 used to feel so old, but, you know, health willing, we could have another, another girl again, couldn't we

01:07:22.777 --> 01:07:24.418
than halfway through, you know.

01:07:25.047 --> 01:07:30.197
So, yeah, it's, it's an incredible gift and one that I am grateful for every day.

01:07:30.277 --> 01:07:37.068
Uh, and, you know, it's, it's, here's, we are the luckiest, that's what they say.

01:07:37.407 --> 01:07:48.378
I think you're so right, and I think, when you said you've never met anybody that regrets giving up drinking, and I thought that's so true, there is not a single person, it's like going to, doing some exercise, isn't it, you never regret doing it.

01:07:48.538 --> 01:07:49.527
Yeah, well that's like sex.

01:07:49.568 --> 01:07:51.318
I always say, going to the gym is like sex.

01:07:51.318 --> 01:07:53.248
You never really feel like it, but you're always glad when you've done it.

01:07:53.472 --> 01:07:55.932
And also, the more you do it, the more you want to do it, right?

01:07:55.952 --> 01:07:56.193
Yeah,

01:07:56.643 --> 01:07:56.762
Yeah!

01:07:57.182 --> 01:07:57.972
A hundred percent.

01:07:58.313 --> 01:08:01.432
Um, but, and that's the same with sobriety.

01:08:01.443 --> 01:08:03.713
It's like, you never really want to do it, but you're always glad when you've done it.

01:08:03.713 --> 01:08:06.873
And the more you do it, the more you're like, well, I'm not, not doing this ever again.

01:08:06.873 --> 01:08:09.963
So it's, it, and they're all good things for you.

01:08:09.963 --> 01:08:12.853
So I think it's, you know, it, yeah.

01:08:12.882 --> 01:08:14.483
I'm just glad I got there eventually.

01:08:14.483 --> 01:08:16.993
I do wish it had taken me a bit, I'd got there a bit quicker.

01:08:17.033 --> 01:08:18.313
But hell, hell, you know, it

01:08:18.353 --> 01:08:19.342
We're there now, right?

01:08:19.483 --> 01:08:20.893
We're there now, and that's what's important.

01:08:21.488 --> 01:08:28.087
can I just quickly ask you something that it was actually something Lulu wanted to ask you, and um, she used to be my co host back in the day, she's still my mate.

01:08:28.087 --> 01:08:35.108
Um, now, she said, how do you find, and I think we sort of touched on it at the beginning, about being so publicly exposed.

01:08:35.167 --> 01:08:39.377
Now, I googled you, obviously, just to do a little bit of research.

01:08:40.387 --> 01:08:40.698
Ish.

01:08:40.908 --> 01:08:41.368
Last minute.

01:08:41.927 --> 01:08:44.828
Um, and one of the first things that came up was Tattle.

01:08:45.478 --> 01:08:47.438
Now, I, I'm not a reader of Tattle.

01:08:47.438 --> 01:08:48.398
I'm aware of its presence.

01:08:48.408 --> 01:08:56.368
For anybody that doesn't know what it is, it's a particularly vitriolic website where people can say the most awful things about other human beings with no comeback.

01:08:56.398 --> 01:08:59.877
And I don't understand why it's allowed, why it exists, or why anybody would want to do it.

01:09:00.568 --> 01:09:01.278
Do you read it?

01:09:02.188 --> 01:09:03.908
No, And, you used to you

01:09:04.028 --> 01:09:04.148
it.

01:09:04.877 --> 01:09:07.438
Uh, I mean, I used to read it when I had a smaller following.

01:09:07.457 --> 01:09:10.018
There was just a few things here and there and I was, and it was fine.

01:09:10.018 --> 01:09:17.257
As I've got bigger, it's become Much, the threads about me have become more popular, more populated.

01:09:17.707 --> 01:09:24.127
And there was, I think there was, at one point there was people on there who was like, they know my family, like, there's somebody in my inner circle, it's fine, like.

01:09:24.837 --> 01:09:28.057
And it used, and it did used to get, really get to me.

01:09:28.108 --> 01:09:31.997
And now, I can't, I'd say it's at least a year since I've looked.

01:09:32.457 --> 01:09:38.417
Um, in fact, when you mentioned it, I was like, oof, I haven't heard, or thought of that word in a long time.

01:09:38.818 --> 01:09:40.988
Um, I'm glad it's there.

01:09:41.773 --> 01:09:45.172
Because it keeps them off the streets, is how I look

01:09:45.217 --> 01:09:46.568
gives them somewhere to pour their

01:09:46.783 --> 01:09:50.603
used to be in my DMs, they used to be in the comments, they're not there anymore.

01:09:50.978 --> 01:09:51.518
Yeah.

01:09:51.872 --> 01:10:01.573
and they can't be, because they can't come and say publicly, without the anonymity, on Instagram, what they're then going to go back and say on Tatl.

01:10:01.573 --> 01:10:05.012
So they're not interested, because they, they want to stay anonymous.

01:10:05.972 --> 01:10:08.672
So, um, so I'm glad it's there.

01:10:09.217 --> 01:10:17.278
Yeah, I hadn't Again, you see, you're making me reframe a lot of my thoughts because I just found it really repulsive and

01:10:17.693 --> 01:10:19.563
It's only repulsive if you read it.

01:10:19.773 --> 01:10:24.932
Yeah, and, and I, this is why I ask, because I'm, John's my sort of, uh, Instagram firewall.

01:10:25.252 --> 01:10:31.903
And he says to me, if a unread, uh, uh, a message request comes in, and you open it, that's your fault.

01:10:31.972 --> 01:10:35.462
I, he said, I will get to them first, and just check that there's nothing horrible there.

01:10:35.462 --> 01:10:40.922
Because, although, you know, my Instagram following is pathetic, I, I need your advice on how to grow that.

01:10:41.193 --> 01:10:45.372
Um, it's, there's 50, 000 listeners out there.

01:10:45.493 --> 01:10:45.762
So.

01:10:46.573 --> 01:10:47.993
Somebody's not going to like me, right?

01:10:48.153 --> 01:10:53.512
And I think accepting that, that you Because there's this people pleaser that's in me.

01:10:54.182 --> 01:10:56.842
I can't bear the thought of anybody not liking me and that's

01:10:57.603 --> 01:10:58.273
Listen, I

01:10:58.332 --> 01:10:59.393
around that being okay.

01:10:59.432 --> 01:11:03.632
learned a long, long time ago that what other people think of me is absolutely none of my business.

01:11:03.662 --> 01:11:04.903
Like, it just isn't.

01:11:05.273 --> 01:11:13.993
And, uh, it, it, I'm really, I think the work I do means that I am very resilient in that way.

01:11:13.993 --> 01:11:14.743
And I've had to be.

01:11:14.752 --> 01:11:17.172
Like, I've really built up, um.

01:11:17.938 --> 01:12:11.792
muscle that's very strong in terms of knowing what is my business and is not my business and You know and that applies for what for the good stuff, too You know, there's a lot of people that are like, oh, well, you know, you can't take the bad stuff on you know You can't you know, well also then you can't really use the good stuff to validate yourself either like you just have to keep that boundary in place and it's not easy, but Um, it's got a lot easier as I've got, as I've got sort of more experience and more time on these, sort of, on these public platforms, but, you know, for me, the public, the public element of it is, it's very natural to me because I'm, I mean, essentially I'm a massive show off, but also I find it much easier to sit and talk about my deepest, darkest defects and secrets.

01:12:12.207 --> 01:12:19.228
to a big, empty, anonymous, massive Instagram space than I do if I was sitting down talking to one person about it.

01:12:19.868 --> 01:12:20.988
I mean, I'll still do that as well.

01:12:20.988 --> 01:12:22.807
But it's, it's significantly easier.

01:12:22.837 --> 01:12:24.938
And it, and it's not all selfless.

01:12:24.957 --> 01:12:25.887
Like, I do do it.

01:12:25.898 --> 01:12:32.037
The primary motivation is that if I share that stuff, then it makes other people feel like they're not the only one.

01:12:32.047 --> 01:12:35.747
Because one of the responses I get most often is messages that go, Oh my God, I thought I was the only one.

01:12:36.318 --> 01:12:59.297
Um, and so, I hope that if I get to share that, it either helps people feel better about it, or recognize it, or ask me how they can fix it, or how I fixed it, or whatever, you know, there is a real motivation there to really try and help, but also, it's really selfish as well, because it helps getting it out there, like with everything, really right sizes it, you know, and when

01:12:59.382 --> 01:13:00.533
accountable as well

01:13:00.637 --> 01:13:05.217
me accountable, and when people come back to me, I'm like, I'm not the only one.

01:13:05.627 --> 01:13:07.898
You know, so for me,

01:13:08.432 --> 01:13:09.752
Sorry, just talked over you.

01:13:09.807 --> 01:13:11.518
don't worry, we're all ADHD, it's fine.

01:13:11.618 --> 01:13:24.028
Um, so for me, it's, it's a very natural place to be, uh, and I am a performer, you know, I am an egotist at the heart of it, which I try and use for the power of good most of the time.

01:13:24.403 --> 01:13:26.863
Yeah, I wish I'd found something like this sooner.

01:13:26.863 --> 01:13:32.182
I did my degree in journalism, but went into sort of PR jobs and government comms.

01:13:32.783 --> 01:13:40.073
And office jobs were not, in hindsight, were just not designed for me at all, whereas the more kind of broadcasting, creative stuff.

01:13:40.273 --> 01:13:44.182
But I just didn't have the self belief, or to be honest, the energy, because I was hungover.

01:13:45.243 --> 01:13:50.073
Yeah, and to be honest, it was never really pointed out to me that I could do this for a living.

01:13:50.073 --> 01:13:55.872
I mean, to be fair, what I do for a living, it wasn't, didn't even exist as a job when I was deciding on it.

01:13:55.872 --> 01:13:57.462
But like, writing is my first love.

01:13:57.512 --> 01:14:02.443
Like, that's where I'd love to make my main income stream, through writing.

01:14:02.443 --> 01:14:06.262
Um, nobody ever said, everybody said, you're a brilliant writer.

01:14:06.302 --> 01:14:10.212
Everybody was like, you're really good at, you know, English was my strength and all of that stuff.

01:14:10.462 --> 01:14:11.113
I got that.

01:14:11.627 --> 01:14:13.818
But nobody said, why don't you think about being a writer?

01:14:13.868 --> 01:14:16.408
Everybody went, go and do an English Literature degree and, you know,

01:14:16.962 --> 01:14:18.092
Mine was going to PR.

01:14:18.143 --> 01:14:21.153
Because, you know, you've got social skills and you can write.

01:14:21.632 --> 01:14:23.783
Um, and my dad was a broadcaster.

01:14:23.783 --> 01:14:27.662
He was a TV, um, a reporter for my whole childhood.

01:14:27.672 --> 01:14:29.802
So he worked away a lot, he was abroad a lot.

01:14:29.802 --> 01:14:31.993
But, um, he was very successful and I'm very proud of him.

01:14:32.443 --> 01:14:34.882
Um, and I wonder if I was intimidated.

01:14:34.893 --> 01:14:38.533
You know, perhaps I thought, oh, Yeah, But who knows.

01:14:38.693 --> 01:14:38.983
But.

01:14:39.717 --> 01:14:40.967
We've covered a lot, haven't we?

01:14:41.148 --> 01:14:43.158
We have covered an awful lot.

01:14:43.427 --> 01:14:46.978
I've just realised as well, you will have just caught me yawning twice.

01:14:47.028 --> 01:14:47.427
It's not

01:14:47.497 --> 01:14:48.627
Oh, please

01:14:48.688 --> 01:14:53.957
left the, I've left the heating on, and so now I've gone from being freezing To being

01:14:54.118 --> 01:14:55.347
I look like, a giant marshmallow.

01:14:55.347 --> 01:14:56.738
I was so cold in this

01:14:56.757 --> 01:15:01.097
about to be put into a central heating coma, so that's why I was

01:15:01.297 --> 01:15:03.847
Well, I tell you what, how long have you got before your school run?

01:15:03.847 --> 01:15:05.847
I've got about half an hour.

01:15:05.847 --> 01:15:08.488
We can go and lay and stare into space for half an hour

01:15:08.528 --> 01:15:09.018
gonna go have a

01:15:09.177 --> 01:15:09.307
run.

01:15:09.872 --> 01:15:11.613
I had a hot bath just before I came in with you.

01:15:11.662 --> 01:15:13.502
10 minutes because I was so cold.

01:15:13.908 --> 01:15:14.398
it's

01:15:14.432 --> 01:15:15.393
image for you there, isn't there?

01:15:15.393 --> 01:15:18.302
Hehehehe

01:15:18.398 --> 01:15:18.818
to get in.

01:15:19.283 --> 01:15:20.372
Oh wow, I'm early today.

01:15:20.802 --> 01:15:29.863
But thank you so much for coming on Kat And for anybody who wants to find out more about Kat She, you, it's not so smug now And that's your Instagram and your blog isn't it?

01:15:30.313 --> 01:15:37.842
So, yeah, Instagram and TikTok, not so smug now, and then the website is not so smug now dot com, but also the biggest thing at the moment, which I'm really trying to launch is substack.

01:15:38.193 --> 01:15:39.332
We launched that this week.

01:15:39.643 --> 01:15:44.802
Um, and it's called you're never the only one on substack.

01:15:45.283 --> 01:15:52.122
Um, and if you, you can subscribe as a free subscriber and you get, uh, an issue every week.

01:15:52.222 --> 01:15:57.587
Yeah, John's actually on Substack He does some quite Brainy stuff that I don't understand.

01:15:57.898 --> 01:16:00.797
And he keeps telling me that I need to start doing it, but you know, baby steps.

01:16:00.797 --> 01:16:01.037
Hey,

01:16:01.393 --> 01:16:04.912
Baby steps one thing at a time which is not something we are traditionally very

01:16:04.967 --> 01:16:06.618
launching this podcast, running another one.

01:16:06.618 --> 01:16:08.127
I've got a six parter in the cat.

01:16:08.127 --> 01:16:08.358
Yeah.

01:16:08.568 --> 01:16:10.908
And it, anyway, let's go stare into space.

01:16:11.108 --> 01:16:12.587
Uh, lovely to meet you cats.

01:16:12.637 --> 01:16:13.228
Stay in touch.

01:16:13.257 --> 01:16:14.807
I'd like to love to speak to you again.

01:16:14.877 --> 01:16:18.037
Um, and I'm definitely going to pick your brains on how to grow social media.

01:16:18.037 --> 01:16:19.448
I think you do a course on that.

01:16:19.853 --> 01:16:21.832
I did, I did do courses on that.

01:16:21.832 --> 01:16:25.922
Now I do like private consultations but we can work it out and it's been an absolute pleasure.

01:16:25.932 --> 01:16:26.233
Thank

01:16:26.342 --> 01:16:27.262
Thank you so much.

01:16:27.292 --> 01:16:31.193
And to all of my listeners, thank you for listening and I'll be back with you next week.