Dec. 9, 2024

S1 - EP9 - Breaking the Silence: Understanding PMDD : Insights from Ally of the PMDD Collective

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S1 - EP9 - Breaking the Silence: Understanding PMDD : Insights from Ally of the PMDD Collective
S1 - EP9 - Breaking the Silence: Understanding PMDD : Insights from Ally of the PMDD Collective
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Season 1

In this episode, host Rosie Gill-Moss welcomes Ally from the PMDD Collective to discuss Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD), a severe mood disorder that affects many women. They explore the symptoms of PMDD, its impact on daily life, and the critical need for awareness and support for those affected. The conversation emphasises the importance of understanding PMDD as a legitimate health issue and the various treatment options available, including lifestyle changes and medical interventions.

Highlight Moments

  • We learn that PMDD is distinct from PMS and is triggered by hormonal fluctuations.
  • The discussion covers the severe symptoms of PMDD, including depression, anxiety, and physical pain.
  • Ally shares insights on the emotional toll PMDD takes on relationships and daily functioning.
  • The importance of tracking menstrual cycles to identify PMDD symptoms is emphasised.
  • Rosie and Ally discuss personal experiences with PMDD, highlighting the need for community support.
  • The episode encourages listeners to seek help and connect with the PMDD Collective for resources.

Topics Covered

  • Understanding the differences between PMDD and PMS.
  • The impact of PMDD on personal relationships and work life.
  • Diagnosis and the importance of awareness regarding PMDD.
  • Support and treatment options available through the PMDD Collective.
  • Personal anecdotes from Rosie and Ally about living with PMDD.
  • The stigma surrounding women's health issues and the need for open conversations.

Key Terms

  • PMDD: Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, a severe mood disorder.
  • PMS: Premenstrual Syndrome, a less severe condition compared to PMDD.
  • SSRIs: Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, a type of antidepressant.
  • Cycle Tracking: Monitoring menstrual cycles to identify patterns.

Resources

Next Steps

  • If you have any concerns for the wellbeing of yourself or someone close ,  please speak with you GP.
  • After listening, consider tracking your menstrual cycle to identify any patterns related to mood changes.
  • Talk about PMDD to raise awareness and reduce stigma surrounding women's health issues.

Disclaimer: 
This episode discusses medical topics. The content is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Always consult qualified healthcare professionals for medical decisions.

The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the hosts and guests and do not reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organisation, employer or company.


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Disclaimers: The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. The experiences and opinions expressed by the guest are personal and should not be taken as general advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional support for similar issues. The producers and host are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information provided in this episode.

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.585 --> 00:00:05.176
Hello, and a very warm welcome back to Chatty AF.

00:00:05.176 --> 00:00:05.855
You're here with me.

00:00:05.886 --> 00:00:06.916
I'm Rosie Gill Moss.

00:00:06.956 --> 00:00:07.855
I'm your host.

00:00:08.416 --> 00:00:12.406
Now, today we're going to be talking about hormones and in particular, PMDD.

00:00:14.025 --> 00:00:23.275
You may or may not have heard of PMDD, but it is a really, really, debilitating condition that affects a surprisingly high amount of women in this country.

00:00:23.935 --> 00:00:29.865
Now, to find out a little bit more about it, I have invited Ali from the PMTD collective to come on and talk to me.

00:00:29.865 --> 00:00:31.115
So a very warm welcome, Ali.

00:00:31.126 --> 00:00:32.006
Thanks for coming on.

00:00:32.475 --> 00:00:33.845
Hi, thanks for having me.

00:00:33.856 --> 00:00:34.566
It's great to be here.

00:00:35.106 --> 00:00:35.835
And I'm so pleased.

00:00:35.875 --> 00:00:36.896
We're doing this at 7.

00:00:36.896 --> 00:00:40.905
30 at night, which those of you who know me, I am actually in pajamas on the bottom half.

00:00:41.155 --> 00:00:42.036
I'm going to disclose that.

00:00:42.085 --> 00:00:43.206
I don't need to, but I'm going to.

00:00:43.795 --> 00:00:44.776
Oversharing at its finest.

00:00:45.415 --> 00:00:46.396
Yay! We're like newsreaders.

00:00:46.426 --> 00:00:47.286
At least we're not in our pants.

00:00:48.756 --> 00:00:50.795
So Ali, tell me a little bit about yourself.

00:00:50.795 --> 00:00:53.235
Tell me a little bit about PMDD itself.

00:00:53.276 --> 00:00:57.835
Um, I'm aware, but I know a lot of my listeners won't be, and kind of how the collective came to be.

00:00:58.356 --> 00:00:58.966
Yeah.

00:00:58.966 --> 00:01:01.405
So PMDD, it's a, it's a funny one.

00:01:01.405 --> 00:01:03.115
I think there's a lot of myths around it.

00:01:03.136 --> 00:01:07.046
So first thing to say is it's not PMS.

00:01:07.775 --> 00:01:12.456
Um, it's very different to, um, yeah, to PMS.

00:01:12.465 --> 00:01:15.415
So essentially it's a.

00:01:15.926 --> 00:01:25.085
mood disorder, um, which is triggered by the brain's responses to the normal fluctuations of the menstrual cycle.

00:01:25.551 --> 00:01:31.245
So it's, it's also not an hormone imbalance, which is another myth around PNDD.

00:01:31.956 --> 00:01:52.305
Um, so essentially the way the brain interprets the normal fluctuations of the menstrual cycle and the hormonal fluctuations, something there, there's, there's, there's Very strong sensitivity to it, um, and it basically produces, um, all sorts of symptoms.

00:01:52.305 --> 00:01:57.736
So from physical health symptoms to mental health symptoms, and they're quite debilitating.

00:01:57.745 --> 00:02:12.605
So we're thinking about things like, um, depression, anxiety, uh, paranoia, um, isolating yourself, um, having an aching body.

00:02:13.026 --> 00:02:26.915
Uh, you Breast tenderness, um, you know, the list goes on and on and on, honestly, go on all evening about it, but yeah, it's, it can be really, really debilitating.

00:02:26.915 --> 00:02:34.066
So it essentially affects people from the point of ovulation all the way through until menstruation.

00:02:35.075 --> 00:02:38.415
So that's the, two weeks out of the four week cycle.

00:02:38.786 --> 00:02:41.316
Um, so it really is affecting people.

00:02:41.635 --> 00:02:44.466
Um, the, yeah, essentially half,

00:02:45.096 --> 00:02:56.985
even though I knew this, When I was doing the recent research ahead of this chat, I, I, I think somewhere in your literature it says, if you're suffering from this for two weeks out of every month, that's half of your life.

00:02:57.406 --> 00:03:15.251
And actually, I did make a note of one thing that you're, um, on your website, one of, you've got some stories, and it, oops, sorry, I've, I've jumped ahead a little bit here, but it was something about, she sort of looked, She went in the end for chemical menopause, but she looked at her life and thought, I don't want to miss any more of this.

00:03:15.251 --> 00:03:23.191
I don't want, essentially, I don't want to be in bed staring at a wall or hating my husband or being irritated by my children for breathing the same airspace as me.

00:03:23.221 --> 00:03:29.320
And when you look at it like that, and half your life could be spent feeling like that, that makes me really, really sad.

00:03:29.776 --> 00:03:31.385
Yeah, yeah, it is.

00:03:31.385 --> 00:03:32.996
It's completely heartbreaking.

00:03:33.575 --> 00:03:55.695
And I think, you know, so you'll have the symptoms for those two weeks, but actually how much of the time in between are you either having to mop up the mess that's been made during that time, rebuild relationships, apologize to people, deal with all the shame and the guilt that you feel because, you know, you may have.

00:03:56.260 --> 00:04:27.221
Been really angry with people, you may have ignored people, you might have just dropped off the face of the planet completely and not done any work, there's a lot of catching up to do in every area of your life, and then the week after that, either you're cramming in all the good stuff, because you know it's coming again, or you might just be feeling really anxious, because you know it's coming around again, and so, you know, Even when you're not symptomatic, you're still living with the condition.

00:04:27.951 --> 00:04:39.911
because I'm, I'm thinking of the impact that these sorts of feelings are going to have when like rage, you know, rage is a really strong word and that boiling fury that comes through you.

00:04:39.911 --> 00:04:49.120
Sometimes when you're having really bad PMD symptoms, but that's going to impact on your relationships is going to impact on your friendships, your family, and also your job.

00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:55.451
And I'm thinking, Of all the times that I've done something that was completely out of character in work.

00:04:55.841 --> 00:05:01.670
Like, also, I threw a high vis jacket at the head teacher of my daughter's school the other day because the walking bus left a minute early.

00:05:02.180 --> 00:05:03.521
Not like me at all.

00:05:03.850 --> 00:05:11.630
And then, of course, you have that crawl down of shame where you have to reach out and say, Oh, I'm terribly sorry I behaved like a toddler and I'm a 43 year old woman.

00:05:12.661 --> 00:05:14.295
And if you go, it's hormones.

00:05:14.896 --> 00:05:26.815
People are going to look at you like you're making an excuse, or, you know, that old adage, I'm perimenopause as well, and even my mum was like, well, it didn't affect me, and I'm thinking it definitely did affect you, I was there.

00:05:27.475 --> 00:05:33.531
And it's that, because it's hormones, it's almost dismissed as something that we should suck up and put up

00:05:33.831 --> 00:05:34.461
Yeah.

00:05:34.591 --> 00:05:35.031
Yeah.

00:05:35.031 --> 00:05:40.461
And that is the general message around, you know, female health anyway, isn't it?

00:05:40.471 --> 00:05:43.451
So, you know, period pain, you know,

00:05:44.550 --> 00:05:44.831
Menopause,

00:05:45.130 --> 00:05:47.761
Menopause, people you just expected to put up with it.

00:05:47.761 --> 00:05:49.120
And I think the thing with.

00:05:49.841 --> 00:05:53.480
PMDD, it's kind of got stigma from two different areas.

00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.821
So it's got the kind of female health stigma, and it's also got the mental health stigma as well.

00:05:59.130 --> 00:06:03.310
And so, yeah, people don't want to talk about it.

00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:04.250
It's, you know.

00:06:04.725 --> 00:06:20.831
Yeah, it's, it's really not heard about, people don't have the awareness around it, and if you try and explain it, it's often, or, oh yeah, I get a bit of PMS too, or, you know, why are you overreacting, like, your hormones shouldn't affect you that much.

00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:27.620
And a lot of the symptoms that you've described, um, they are quite similar to those of perimenopause.

00:06:27.781 --> 00:06:33.081
And I know that PMDD can land right at the beginning of puberty when you start to get periods.

00:06:33.461 --> 00:06:38.425
And I know that my life, up until the point when I started getting periods, was quite stable.

00:06:39.045 --> 00:06:42.185
And after that I went on a trajectory of self destruction.

00:06:42.446 --> 00:06:48.495
And it was, it makes me quite emotional thinking about it because it was like I just wanted to burn the world right down around me.

00:06:48.956 --> 00:06:56.995
Now I'm also neurodivergent and I'm going to come onto the fact that there's quite a strong link between neurodiversity and, and, um, and stronger PMDD symptoms.

00:06:57.485 --> 00:07:10.711
But I'm just, uh, How can you tell, say for example, I mean I have a hormonal daughter myself, I've got an 11 year old, how do you tell what is kind of that normal smack of puberty landing, and what might be something more serious like PMDD?

00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:28.781
Yeah, I mean, it is a turbulent time anyway, um, but I think, If it, if it feels extreme, essentially, so in PMDD, the symptoms are quite severe.

00:07:28.966 --> 00:07:40.466
So, you know, one of the, they've just added it in, actually, one of the, the kind of, um, criteria, uh, diagnosis is the, um, presence of, of suicidal ideation.

00:07:41.295 --> 00:07:41.536
And so.

00:07:42.286 --> 00:08:03.656
You know, and that's not to say that people are always actively suicide, but they may, um, experience intrusive thoughts, and that can be on a really, um, sort of wide spectrum, so it, it could be thoughts of wanting to take their life, or it may just be thoughts of, I don't want to be here anymore.

00:08:03.925 --> 00:08:05.026
I don't want to exist.

00:08:05.055 --> 00:08:06.915
I don't want to feel this pain anymore.

00:08:07.406 --> 00:08:12.985
And so I'd say if we're having any of those types of thoughts, it's definitely worth looking into.

00:08:13.516 --> 00:08:27.915
Um, I think also, um, you know, the, the, yeah, the severeness of the depression that people will experience and the anxiety as well, if people are experiencing things like panic attacks and things like that, you know,

00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:41.291
I suppose things to do would be, if you've got a young teenager that perhaps isn't wanting to track their periods, I mean, I'm rubbish at doing it myself now, so perhaps you could sort of monitor their cycle, monitor if these mood swings are happening.

00:08:41.591 --> 00:08:42.600
absolutely.

00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:49.681
Yeah, that's like the top tip that I don't shut up about basically, everyone should be tracking their cycle.

00:08:50.020 --> 00:08:55.471
Um, everyone should be learning how to do it and also what it means, you know, so it's all good and well

00:08:55.510 --> 00:08:55.941
didn't even know

00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:58.860
period's going to arrive, but yeah, like the amount

00:08:58.870 --> 00:08:59.610
luteal phase was.

00:09:00.405 --> 00:09:00.875
Never heard of

00:09:00.998 --> 00:09:03.017
So many people are like, what?

00:09:03.017 --> 00:09:08.291
There's more than, there's more phases of just menstruation and ovulation.

00:09:08.291 --> 00:09:08.410
Whoa.

00:09:09.735 --> 00:09:18.166
And actually when I was I'm going to share a little bit here that I um be quite personal But when I was a teenager, I did um have suicidal ideations.

00:09:18.166 --> 00:09:26.466
I self harmed I suffered with eating disorders and I did make a couple of attempts on my life They weren't what I would term serious attempts.

00:09:26.706 --> 00:09:31.160
Um, they were It sounds negative, but they were a crime for attention.

00:09:31.811 --> 00:09:37.350
They were a desperate plea for somebody to see the fact that I had no idea what was going on with me.

00:09:37.370 --> 00:09:40.711
I didn't understand why I felt the way I did and why I was so angry.

00:09:41.520 --> 00:09:43.721
And I mean, the statistics are enormous.

00:09:45.020 --> 00:10:02.355
I'm going to read from my notes because I haven't memorized, but in the UK, approximately 824, 000 sufferers of PMTD, and then that's 593, 000 would have had some sort of suicidal ideation and around 275, 000 women would have attempted to take their own life in the UK.

00:10:02.706 --> 00:10:03.875
That makes me go cold,

00:10:04.510 --> 00:10:04.961
Yeah.

00:10:05.046 --> 00:10:05.696
really cold.

00:10:05.725 --> 00:10:07.035
That's terrifying.

00:10:07.995 --> 00:10:15.235
I have been there and I've been there as an adult, you know, when, when perimenopause landed and I've been on the marina course, I'm going to talk a little bit about preventatives.

00:10:15.265 --> 00:10:18.946
So the marina coil had, I believe, masked it for quite some time in me.

00:10:19.645 --> 00:10:23.436
And, um, um, I just, I didn't know who was coming down the stairs in the morning.

00:10:23.576 --> 00:10:27.446
Um, I, I was, like you say, I was retreating.

00:10:27.495 --> 00:10:31.816
I was almost, um, I couldn't think of the word then.

00:10:32.216 --> 00:10:34.605
I was snappy, irritable.

00:10:34.655 --> 00:10:49.206
I was And then so ashamed, and I just, I guess the fact that there are so many women, or women assigned female at birth, who are suffering with this, and they may not even know they have it.

00:10:49.576 --> 00:10:51.405
No, and that's the thing.

00:10:51.405 --> 00:11:31.196
I think, you know, if you have PMDD and it goes undiagnosed, really what happens is your, your self esteem is eroded more and more each month because you're Behaving in a way that doesn't align with your values, doesn't align with your personality, doesn't fit with you, you don't know where it's coming from, it can feel really scary, really out of control, and then all of a sudden, those symptoms just disappear again, and if you're not tracking your cycle, You know, people aren't too weak because two weeks before the period, you're not thinking about PMS two weeks before, are you?

00:11:31.725 --> 00:11:34.135
Um, so people don't make the link.

00:11:34.166 --> 00:11:38.525
And I think essentially what happens is they start to think I must just be a really horrible person.

00:11:39.571 --> 00:11:55.145
And that's such a heavy weight to live with and so a lot of the work that I do is and that we do in the collective is, you know, helping people rebuild that self esteem and let them help them see that they are not alone.

00:11:55.145 --> 00:12:11.405
Their PMDD that, that it's separate things going on, you know, I really like to think of PMDD not as a part of the person in terms of like personality, I like to think of it more as like a chronic condition.

00:12:11.416 --> 00:12:15.712
So I'll liken it to something like diabetes, for example, or is it?

00:12:15.712 --> 00:12:19.166
Yeah, it's something that we have to live with, that we have to manage and

00:12:19.495 --> 00:12:20.426
But it's not who we are.

00:12:20.975 --> 00:12:22.046
It's not you.

00:12:22.735 --> 00:12:31.505
Yeah, because I really struggle with that and I felt that made me push away my family and my husband particularly, I think the poor men do suffer quite a lot in this circumstance.

00:12:31.995 --> 00:12:40.865
And I would push him away and, but what I was actually doing is thinking I've got to protect you guys from me because, you know, I wasn't lying or anything like that, I wasn't very nice.

00:12:41.456 --> 00:12:47.245
I wasn't, and it's very confusing to not know how your mum is going to behave every day.

00:12:47.625 --> 00:12:49.105
That must be quite frightening for them.

00:12:49.515 --> 00:12:49.725
Now.

00:12:50.890 --> 00:12:55.980
I'm just, I'm going to just take you back and ask you, how did, so how did the PMTD Collective come to be?

00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:57.850
What was the driving force behind that?

00:12:58.556 --> 00:13:23.576
Yeah, so, um, essentially, Emily and I sort of found each other, um, we were both sort of therapists on Instagram, uh, specializing in PMDD, both just sort of starting out with our private practice, um, And we kind of found each other and we're like, Hey, like, let's do something together.

00:13:23.615 --> 00:13:37.875
Like we both wanted to use the Instagram platform to kind of raise awareness and support people and build a bit of a community, um, a space for people to learn about PMDD and just connect with other people that have it.

00:13:38.405 --> 00:13:46.541
Um, And so essentially, we were like, well, let's team up, really, let's, yeah, join forces and do this together.

00:13:46.591 --> 00:13:51.160
Um, and so that was, yeah, that was the PMDD collective coming together.

00:13:51.760 --> 00:13:53.990
And it's just kind of snowballed from there, really.

00:13:53.990 --> 00:14:00.240
And, you know, I'm really happy to say that I think we, Have achieved and continue to achieve those goals.

00:14:00.250 --> 00:14:02.471
So we've got a lovely online community.

00:14:02.900 --> 00:14:07.181
We host a support group every month, a free support group.

00:14:07.280 --> 00:14:11.510
Um, and then we also obviously run our own therapy practices as well.

00:14:11.961 --> 00:14:14.130
Um, but yeah, it's really nice.

00:14:14.130 --> 00:14:17.770
You know, we see the same people come back every month and support each other.

00:14:18.331 --> 00:14:26.846
And even just in the comments on the posts, you know, it's so lovely to see people because It's such a funny condition.

00:14:26.846 --> 00:14:30.326
It's really difficult to explain to people what it feels like.

00:14:30.765 --> 00:14:42.451
And I think It's just so affirming, you know, we see this a lot in group therapy when, like, you just don't have to explain to people and they're like, Oh, you get it.

00:14:43.591 --> 00:14:44.301
So satisfying.

00:14:45.110 --> 00:14:45.410
Yeah.

00:14:45.421 --> 00:14:56.610
I mean, my, my other podcast is about being widowed and very much, I mean, different, but same in some ways, because it's that sense of isolation that nobody understands and that you're a freak.

00:14:56.890 --> 00:15:01.201
That what you're feeling is abnormal and there's something really wrong with you.

00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:12.041
And I've always kind of preached about this importance of finding your tribe, finding your people, finding people who get you, and whether that be because you're a Norodic virgin, you're widowed, divorced, whatever it might be.

00:15:12.410 --> 00:15:13.910
And I think this is the same sort of thing.

00:15:13.910 --> 00:15:16.311
It's that, Oh God, it's not just me Norodic virgin.

00:15:16.510 --> 00:15:25.061
When I found your page I was the same, I was like shit, this is, this is me, like this, I feel, I suppose I feel represented for want of a better term.

00:15:25.880 --> 00:15:26.431
yeah.

00:15:26.841 --> 00:15:29.150
It's this sense of, of like belonging.

00:15:29.980 --> 00:15:31.490
Um, yeah.

00:15:32.301 --> 00:15:43.660
so if somebody's listening now and they are thinking this sounds quite a lot like me, um, what is the first thing that you would recommend somebody do to sort of try and take control?

00:15:43.961 --> 00:15:44.400
Yeah.

00:15:44.471 --> 00:15:47.850
So I'll say it again, my mantra, track your cycle.

00:15:48.350 --> 00:15:48.971
Track your cycle.

00:15:49.321 --> 00:15:50.791
I'm going to call this episode track your cycle.

00:15:52.725 --> 00:15:56.086
that's your first place so that you can really see what's going on.

00:15:56.566 --> 00:16:03.265
Um, you know, so we, there are other premenstrual conditions that you might want to look at as well.

00:16:03.265 --> 00:16:06.865
So there's PME, which is premenstrual exacerbation.

00:16:07.346 --> 00:16:14.081
So that's where you might have a mental health condition or another condition and it's exacerbated by.

00:16:14.321 --> 00:16:15.701
By your menstrual cycle.

00:16:15.870 --> 00:16:16.971
It's very similar.

00:16:17.421 --> 00:16:30.811
Um, but say someone is suffering with depression, they might have low mood throughout the month, but it might be way worse during that part and before the period, interesting with neurodivergence.

00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:33.620
just going to say about this because I've been reading about the link.

00:16:34.181 --> 00:16:36.341
there's a massive exacerbation there.

00:16:36.341 --> 00:16:45.620
So people might be, yeah, you know, much more easily overstimulated, A DHD symptoms will increase.

00:16:45.711 --> 00:16:48.650
Uh, and the meds seem to stop working A

00:16:49.081 --> 00:16:49.541
they do.

00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:51.201
Yes.

00:16:51.936 --> 00:16:57.160
Um, so, you know, I think, yeah, it, it, so there's that to look out for as well.

00:16:57.160 --> 00:16:57.755
So I think doing.

00:16:58.520 --> 00:17:05.131
Some really in-depth tracking is going to, you know, you don't have to do it for too long, a few months maybe.

00:17:05.611 --> 00:17:15.631
Um, and then once you've got that tracking that data, take it to your gp, go in prepared for the gp.

00:17:15.631 --> 00:17:17.010
It can be daunting.

00:17:17.340 --> 00:17:19.681
I think things are getting a little bit better now.

00:17:19.681 --> 00:17:22.020
I think more doctors have heard of it.

00:17:23.276 --> 00:17:24.296
Not all of them.

00:17:24.336 --> 00:17:31.076
And so I think, you know, going in with as much information and feeling really brave and assertive.

00:17:31.135 --> 00:17:31.165
Yes.

00:17:32.111 --> 00:17:49.726
And the problem is so, so many people regarding women's health will go to see their GP, say I'm having all these symptoms, and their GP is going to say, It's part being a woman and I know that's not always the case and I know we're getting better But still so many people will face that response.

00:17:49.736 --> 00:17:51.496
So what would you suggest?

00:17:51.796 --> 00:17:52.195
Wow.

00:17:52.226 --> 00:17:54.266
This is where the assertive bit comes in.

00:17:54.435 --> 00:18:19.605
So, you know, I would really come back, come back to that tracking and particularly if you're noticing things like suicidal thoughts, you know, severe mood swings, you know, debilitating symptoms, symptoms that are maybe stopping you from working or stopping you from, you know, being able to parent in the best way, you know, you know, hammer those points home to the doctor and say, really, hmm.

00:18:19.891 --> 00:18:20.740
Is this normal?

00:18:21.560 --> 00:18:27.851
Um, and, and then say, okay, if that's your medical opinion, I, I would like a second opinion.

00:18:28.300 --> 00:18:31.730
Um, and you know, yeah.

00:18:31.790 --> 00:18:33.780
What are you going to do about this basically?

00:18:33.830 --> 00:18:35.830
Because I, I don't think this is normal.

00:18:35.830 --> 00:18:37.605
This isn't a normal experience.

00:18:37.905 --> 00:18:41.726
want to do is go in right in the middle of an episode then they'd know who was in charge

00:18:43.201 --> 00:18:44.121
Yeah, that's it.

00:18:44.310 --> 00:18:52.191
You know, if you have a supportive friend or partner, maybe take them with you as well, because it can be really emotional.

00:18:52.411 --> 00:18:54.651
If you are in the middle of it, you know, you might just.

00:18:54.901 --> 00:18:59.441
break down into tears and not be able to even get the words out.

00:18:59.621 --> 00:19:02.627
So I say to people, write bullet points of what you want to say.

00:19:03.111 --> 00:19:09.141
If you've got a supportive friend or partner, take them in with you so that they can advocate for you if it does get too much.

00:19:09.830 --> 00:19:10.240
And.

00:19:10.715 --> 00:19:26.445
I mean, I, I have recommended to some people before, like, you know, if your doctor is really not listening, tell them that you are going to get in touch with the GMC because you feel like they're being negligent if they're not listening.

00:19:26.816 --> 00:19:37.996
And you can also say, you know, I'm also going to request, um, my medical notes so that I can see what you've documented from this and I've made my own notes.

00:19:39.300 --> 00:19:40.070
this file.

00:19:40.270 --> 00:19:49.040
So, you know, it, It's a shame that we have to go to these lengths to really get our needs met within the medical system.

00:19:50.020 --> 00:19:52.530
And I think slowly it is changing.

00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:55.651
So this is like the extreme example I'm giving here.

00:19:56.431 --> 00:20:06.780
But for some people that has been the experience they've had to go to those lengths to actually get their, their needs met with PMDD and for them to be heard.

00:20:07.250 --> 00:20:10.806
So it's unfortunate, but it's the reality of it.

00:20:11.105 --> 00:20:13.276
And essentially what you're saying is be your own advocate.

00:20:13.316 --> 00:20:17.806
If you recognize these symptoms in yourself then you have to be prepared to advocate for yourself.

00:20:18.195 --> 00:20:24.105
And it's interesting you said there about taking somebody with you because, um, somebody else I spoke to on menopause said the same thing.

00:20:24.576 --> 00:20:30.195
Particularly if you're in a romantic relationship of any kind, your partner is going to be impacted by this.

00:20:30.270 --> 00:20:37.576
Now, no matter how loving and supportive and caring they are, it's a difficult condition to live alongside as well as to experience.

00:20:38.036 --> 00:20:51.625
So, by taking them with you, you, they, they can advocate for you, but also they get to hear about the condition and understand a little bit more about it, because am I right that you can't, it's not curable

00:20:52.721 --> 00:20:53.250
Yeah.

00:20:53.556 --> 00:20:55.256
Yeah, there isn't a cure.

00:20:55.556 --> 00:20:57.986
apart from a, would it be a full sterilization?

00:20:57.986 --> 00:20:58.961
I

00:20:59.105 --> 00:21:00.306
not a sterilization.

00:21:00.306 --> 00:21:10.786
So you can have, um, you can have a surgical menopause, so that's, so either a hysterectomy, having everything out, or just the ovaries, an oophorectomy.

00:21:13.135 --> 00:21:13.976
Yeah, it's a funny one.

00:21:14.145 --> 00:21:15.806
It took me ages to learn how to pronounce that.

00:21:15.806 --> 00:21:39.701
Um, Yeah, I think it, um, it doesn't always cure it though, interestingly, um, you know, there are people still having cyclical symptoms, even with the reproductive organs removed, because some of the hormones are produced in the brain.

00:21:39.780 --> 00:21:46.201
And so it seems like the brain is still fighting for you to have, yeah, have your periods, which,

00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:47.230
Human body.

00:21:47.260 --> 00:21:47.990
Very clever.

00:21:48.101 --> 00:21:48.911
Very stupid.

00:21:49.921 --> 00:21:54.221
I mean, I've jumped right ahead to sort of full met, full, um, hysterectomy there.

00:21:54.490 --> 00:21:58.361
But obviously before you get to that point, there's quite a lot of options you can explore.

00:21:58.780 --> 00:22:12.330
And, um, There is things like exercise, meditation, all the good things, nutrition, sleep, all the things that we, we know we should be doing for every aspect of our lives, but let's say we've tried all of those things.

00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:13.211
What's next?

00:22:13.211 --> 00:22:16.020
What would be the next sort of, I guess, intervention?

00:22:16.726 --> 00:22:17.215
Yeah.

00:22:17.215 --> 00:22:19.665
So we've, yeah, we've got all those lifestyle changes.

00:22:19.685 --> 00:22:23.496
We've got supplements, uh, which are more sort of PMGD specific.

00:22:23.506 --> 00:22:34.195
So, uh, we're looking at things like, uh, B complex, uh, we've got magnesium and we've got what else?

00:22:34.256 --> 00:22:35.445
We've got calcium.

00:22:35.445 --> 00:22:35.972
Yeah.

00:22:35.972 --> 00:22:36.500
Yeah.

00:22:36.500 --> 00:22:37.855
All right.

00:22:38.060 --> 00:22:40.030
straight A's here.

00:22:40.885 --> 00:22:41.655
three.

00:22:41.905 --> 00:22:54.226
There are other ones that I would also recommend, like making sure you've got vitamin D because again, I don't know the research behind it, but anecdotally and in my practice, a lot of people seem to struggle, struggle with the winter months.

00:22:54.455 --> 00:22:56.976
So make sure that you've got that as well.

00:22:57.336 --> 00:23:04.135
Um, and also Omega 3s are just great for the, the like brain fog, uh, type symptoms that you can get.

00:23:04.145 --> 00:23:06.175
So that that's helpful.

00:23:06.730 --> 00:23:10.431
Um, so those are your kind of evidence based recommended supplements.

00:23:10.431 --> 00:23:15.111
There are some other sort of more herbal remedies that you can try as well.

00:23:15.111 --> 00:23:20.570
So a common one is, uh, Vitex or it's also called, um, Chaseberry.

00:23:21.070 --> 00:23:25.230
Um, or the other name for it is Agnes Cactus.

00:23:25.530 --> 00:23:28.901
Um, so yeah, there's a few different names for it.

00:23:28.971 --> 00:23:32.971
Um, so lots of people say that that's Can help, um,

00:23:33.270 --> 00:23:33.780
and error with

00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:36.391
yeah, all of the treatments are trial and error.

00:23:36.530 --> 00:23:47.191
So once you've sort of got all your supplements, you've got your exercise in place, you've got your diet and all of that, uh, then we're looking at things like antidepressants, so SSRIs.

00:23:47.415 --> 00:23:47.506
Hmm.

00:23:47.810 --> 00:23:49.550
Just before I go on to those.

00:23:50.066 --> 00:23:51.596
I'm gonna pick your brains.

00:23:51.605 --> 00:23:52.596
I really hate that expression.

00:23:52.655 --> 00:23:53.306
I don't know why I said that.

00:23:53.375 --> 00:23:54.316
Antihistamines.

00:23:54.826 --> 00:23:55.486
Ah, yes.

00:23:55.486 --> 00:23:55.766
So,

00:23:56.066 --> 00:24:06.996
So my husband sent me a video on TikTok and it was about this antihistamines and peptid, peptid, peptid, peptid AC, which is like a heartburn relief, right?

00:24:07.895 --> 00:24:08.506
Talk to me.

00:24:08.855 --> 00:24:16.205
So again, both of these, um, sort of remedies are not particularly evidence-based yet.

00:24:16.205 --> 00:24:17.766
We don't have the research on them.

00:24:18.115 --> 00:24:18.836
TikTok told me.

00:24:19.135 --> 00:24:19.855
Yeah.

00:24:19.855 --> 00:24:22.586
So people try stuff and it works.

00:24:23.931 --> 00:24:29.066
So yeah, there's, I mean, there's a few different schools of thoughts out there on antihistamines.

00:24:29.155 --> 00:24:29.846
Um.

00:24:30.461 --> 00:24:38.500
I mean, antihistamines are really helpful for sleep anyway, so that's always beneficial if you're getting good enough sleep during luteal.

00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:42.770
It tends to be one way or the other, it's either hypersomnia or insomnia.

00:24:43.131 --> 00:24:46.770
Um, so that's one benefit of the antihistamine.

00:24:46.971 --> 00:24:52.141
Um, but yeah, people take it just during luteal and they seem to notice a difference.

00:24:52.365 --> 00:24:53.365
I mean, it can't hurt.

00:24:53.665 --> 00:24:54.540
people who work some, though.

00:24:54.615 --> 00:24:54.901
Yeah, it

00:24:54.915 --> 00:24:55.816
This is what I thought.

00:24:56.165 --> 00:24:57.665
I've got a pack of Benadryl ready.

00:24:57.726 --> 00:25:00.756
I enter next week, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna just see what happens.

00:25:00.766 --> 00:25:04.135
It might be that it doesn't do anything, in which case I've wasted 99.

00:25:04.165 --> 00:25:05.346
So, let's see.

00:25:06.236 --> 00:25:09.236
Sorry, I just, I was desperate to get that in there because I only watched the video

00:25:09.290 --> 00:25:09.560
absolutely.

00:25:09.711 --> 00:25:11.951
Yeah,

00:25:11.986 --> 00:25:19.905
so, so you've exhausted the sort of more herbal or alternative type therapies, and then we're looking at something like sertraline, presumably?

00:25:20.090 --> 00:25:20.161
yeah.

00:25:20.205 --> 00:25:25.601
So that is, well, that's, that tends to be what people, what the GPs will recommend first.

00:25:25.601 --> 00:25:28.201
I think that's their generally their first line one.

00:25:28.730 --> 00:25:34.800
Um, strangely enough, low dose is what's recommended for all the FDD.

00:25:34.810 --> 00:25:40.455
So, um, it, if it's going to be effective, it's usually at a lower dose.

00:25:40.536 --> 00:25:46.155
And interestingly, you can, it works a little bit differently in PMDD than it would in depression.

00:25:46.155 --> 00:25:51.135
And so you can actually take it just for the luteal part of the cycle.

00:25:52.050 --> 00:25:56.191
My doctor's got me on, um, a loading dose is 50 milligrams a day.

00:25:56.280 --> 00:26:02.951
And then if I need to, I can increase it because he's, he said to keep a baseline and needs that the increase will work a lot quicker.

00:26:03.490 --> 00:26:06.391
Um, and actually I, and I have my Marina coil refitted.

00:26:06.391 --> 00:26:11.570
I went, I basically into a PMDD episode and I didn't realize that it gives off.

00:26:12.121 --> 00:26:13.340
It comes in hot, doesn't it?

00:26:13.340 --> 00:26:14.101
For the first three months.

00:26:14.111 --> 00:26:14.530
So you.

00:26:15.046 --> 00:26:17.036
So I'm on a slightly higher dose at the moment.

00:26:17.165 --> 00:26:22.405
But prior to that, I was finding that that very low dose of sertraline was not enough to make me feel numb.

00:26:22.415 --> 00:26:25.746
Because that's the other thing, we don't want to like be zombified, do we?

00:26:25.746 --> 00:26:29.455
We don't want to go back to the old days where we were all popping mother's little helpers and getting through the day.

00:26:30.135 --> 00:26:32.715
But I found the low dose enabled me to feel the feelings.

00:26:32.986 --> 00:26:36.175
But gave me that slight buffer when they came in too strong.

00:26:37.230 --> 00:26:37.730
That's it.

00:26:37.730 --> 00:26:38.621
Absolutely.

00:26:38.621 --> 00:26:39.070
Yeah.

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:43.191
There's so many people that come in and say, I just can't feel anything anymore.

00:26:43.490 --> 00:26:46.740
And that's such a change from when you've been living with PMDD and

00:26:46.766 --> 00:26:47.625
all or nothing.

00:26:48.020 --> 00:26:48.631
Yeah.

00:26:48.661 --> 00:26:49.211
So absolutely.

00:26:49.211 --> 00:26:55.621
Um, so yeah, there's lots of different ways that you can use antidepressants with, um, PMDD.

00:26:55.721 --> 00:27:01.800
The other thing that your GP will likely offer you probably before antidepressants actually is birth control.

00:27:01.800 --> 00:27:04.891
So contraceptive pill, um,

00:27:04.925 --> 00:27:06.236
usually the mini pill, isn't it?

00:27:06.536 --> 00:27:09.155
Yeah, so it's really divided on this.

00:27:09.165 --> 00:27:12.643
So for some people, it works wonders, um, and that's, that's great.

00:27:12.643 --> 00:27:19.816
Other people, lots of people with PMDD, they will experience progesterone intolerance.

00:27:20.415 --> 00:27:32.266
Um, so what, what that means is, yeah, the progesterone in the pill is not tolerated well, their PMDD symptoms will exacerbate massively, um, they might experience progesterone intolerance.

00:27:32.695 --> 00:27:37.986
you know, a lot of other complications as well, uh, like inconsistent bleeding and stuff like that.

00:27:37.996 --> 00:27:41.915
So yeah, it can really run amok.

00:27:41.915 --> 00:27:47.175
So I think it, yeah, it tends to be either one way or the other.

00:27:47.175 --> 00:27:50.506
It's either really, really helpful or Not helpful at all.

00:27:50.905 --> 00:28:05.226
Um, but I think, yeah, once people know that they are progesterone intolerant, then that kind of helps them with their sort of treatment journey, and they know to avoid those synthetic, um, hormones, uh, progesterone.

00:28:05.746 --> 00:28:09.695
So interestingly, I mentioned earlier that I've been on the Mirena coil since,

00:28:09.996 --> 00:28:10.145
Yeah,

00:28:11.056 --> 00:28:14.415
probably after I had my second, my first and my second child, so at least, probably about ten years.

00:28:15.046 --> 00:28:18.086
And I hadn't really noticed the PMDD.

00:28:18.326 --> 00:28:25.715
Um, I also, My life was quite stable and calm, you know, I also drank a lot and I want to talk about drinking and PND as well.

00:28:26.226 --> 00:28:30.375
Um, and then it was after, basically, I was due to have it replaced.

00:28:30.375 --> 00:28:32.046
It had come to the end of its 7 years.

00:28:32.586 --> 00:28:37.486
And, um, I was put on the mini pill as sort of first course of defense.

00:28:37.965 --> 00:28:40.266
And that was when I, um, I had my breakdown.

00:28:40.336 --> 00:28:42.175
A full breakdown I presented at A& E.

00:28:42.185 --> 00:28:44.790
You know, it was the, Probably the most terrifying time of my life.

00:28:44.790 --> 00:28:47.030
Social services were threatened to be involved.

00:28:47.070 --> 00:28:51.320
I mean, the kids were fine, but they just have to go through the process because you presented with a mental health problem.

00:28:52.010 --> 00:28:55.401
I could go on about that and how you're vilified for crying for help.

00:28:55.441 --> 00:29:04.010
But, um, I'm wondering why the mini pill would have such a adverse reaction from me, but I was able to tolerate the Mirena coil.

00:29:04.010 --> 00:29:05.258
I don't know if you even know the answer

00:29:05.431 --> 00:29:06.320
Yeah, yeah.

00:29:06.320 --> 00:29:13.391
So the, the theory behind this is that actually the, with the coil, it's localized to the uterus,

00:29:13.411 --> 00:29:14.800
Mm hmm.

00:29:15.101 --> 00:29:18.250
of it is getting into your bloodstream, going to your brain.

00:29:18.651 --> 00:29:23.941
Um, whereas with the pill, it's obviously being ingested and flowing throughout the whole body.

00:29:24.280 --> 00:29:27.260
And so that's the, yeah, that's the sort of thoughts on it.

00:29:27.270 --> 00:29:32.161
So if it's, it's more localized, um, it's, it not sort of.

00:29:32.516 --> 00:29:34.601
Getting all around your body, essentially,

00:29:34.901 --> 00:29:37.750
I suppose it's sort of really drip feeding it as well, isn't it?

00:29:37.750 --> 00:29:38.830
It's just giving off a smugness.

00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:43.560
Before I came on to talk to you, I just, I'm on a group, it's called the Zebra Club, because we're all neurodivergent.

00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:47.941
And, um, I just was saying, well, I'm going to be talking to you sort of at the end of the day, if you guys suffer.

00:29:47.941 --> 00:29:51.905
And one of my friends, uh, who, who does, she said, oh, the mini pill saved my life.

00:29:52.030 --> 00:29:52.611
Absolutely brilliant.

00:29:52.651 --> 00:29:54.461
I was like, well, it nearly took mine.

00:29:54.861 --> 00:29:58.156
And it's, so even when you have the same condition, Mm hmm.

00:29:58.536 --> 00:30:01.796
Your response to the treatment can be so drastically different.

00:30:01.806 --> 00:30:05.336
So you're really kind of, excuse my language, but pissing in the wind a bit, really.

00:30:05.986 --> 00:30:07.665
Yeah, it's really difficult.

00:30:07.665 --> 00:30:13.635
We get this all the time, this message through from, from people on our Instagram, like, should I try the pill?

00:30:13.635 --> 00:30:14.776
Is it gonna help?

00:30:14.836 --> 00:30:24.016
And you know, I said just yesterday to someone, and I say it all the time, like, I wish I could give you a definitive answer and say this thing will help.

00:30:24.435 --> 00:30:27.135
But honestly, it might make it 10 times better.

00:30:27.286 --> 00:30:32.516
It might make it a million times worse and nobody really knows.

00:30:32.516 --> 00:30:33.115
Yeah.

00:30:33.445 --> 00:30:34.965
And it takes so long, doesn't it?

00:30:34.976 --> 00:30:40.195
That's the other thing is when you're in crisis and you realize finally, okay, this is what my condition is.

00:30:40.195 --> 00:30:41.596
This is what I'm struggling with.

00:30:42.395 --> 00:30:50.076
And then you, I mean, actually it is in so many ways similar to menopause because it takes a good year to get your dosage adjusted when you're intuitive to perimenopause.

00:30:51.465 --> 00:30:57.336
And I'm guessing that hormonal treatment, can that be used to help treat PMDD as well?

00:30:57.355 --> 00:30:59.296
Yeah.

00:30:59.701 --> 00:31:14.141
So you can use HRT alongside the coil as a PMDD treatment and you'll also use HRT, you know, if you're using sort of chemical menopause as well.

00:31:14.510 --> 00:31:17.955
And so, yeah, but you're absolutely right.

00:31:17.955 --> 00:31:18.941
Even if people.

00:31:19.286 --> 00:31:31.405
decide to go all the way through the treatment journey and have like the hysterectomy or oophorectomy, you then have the battle of managing your HRT.

00:31:31.736 --> 00:31:32.076
Yeah.

00:31:32.076 --> 00:31:37.355
And, and your body being put into menopause like that, you know, it's a shock to the body.

00:31:37.796 --> 00:31:46.546
And so actually you're still going to be battling with similar symptoms until you get those HRT levels right, essentially.

00:31:46.556 --> 00:31:46.576
Yeah.

00:31:47.405 --> 00:32:01.066
Oh, I'm guessing as well that the serotonin or the antidepressant, whilst you're figuring out how to treat it, perhaps with hormones or with any of the other, you know, lifestyle changes, the antidepressants, they're not permanent or they don't have to be permanent.

00:32:01.066 --> 00:32:02.685
And I think that's something that scared me.

00:32:02.685 --> 00:32:06.645
I was, I actually, I was on fluoxetine from my teenage years.

00:32:06.665 --> 00:32:30.895
I had chronic bulimia and it, it saved my life essentially, um, and then periodically I'd come off it, you know, the babies and, and when I decided that I was going to look into going, taking some sort of antidepressant, they, um, suggested Sertraline and I was thinking, oh, I don't really want to go back onto something else, you know, it's really tough coming off it and I've come off the Sertraline and I don't know why, but it felt like a sign of weakness, but I needed this.

00:32:31.375 --> 00:32:33.976
this antidepressant just to be able to be a functioning human.

00:32:34.605 --> 00:32:41.086
And I think actually, as soon as we try and destigmatize that, which we are doing, it is happening, and you realize that that's your buffer, right?

00:32:41.125 --> 00:32:52.451
That's just gonna, and while you're trying hormone treatments, HRT, whatever you might be trying to get to the kind of root cause of it, that will enable you to stay alive long enough to get to the cure.

00:32:52.451 --> 00:32:55.046
Essentially, it sounds brutal, but the figures speak for themselves.

00:32:55.615 --> 00:32:59.695
Women are really, are at risk of self harm during this

00:32:59.901 --> 00:33:01.330
Oh, absolutely.

00:33:01.381 --> 00:33:02.621
Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:02.631 --> 00:33:11.161
It's, yeah, yeah, the, the, there's such an increase in things like, well, the suicidal ideation and self harm.

00:33:11.260 --> 00:33:17.891
Um, yeah, I think knowing about PMDD and treating PMDD is it's suicide prevention.

00:33:18.846 --> 00:33:29.695
Um, and I think, you know, I like to think of the antidepressants, like, if you, I don't know if you, like, I'm a, I'm a vegan, for example, and so I have to supplement B12.

00:33:30.205 --> 00:33:33.615
I don't think to myself, oh man, like, I'm

00:33:33.651 --> 00:33:35.520
and man up and do it without it.

00:33:35.520 --> 00:33:38.750
Yeah.

00:33:39.076 --> 00:33:40.036
thing, isn't it?

00:33:40.036 --> 00:33:47.836
You know, you're doing everything else that you possibly can, but your brain isn't keeping enough serotonin you.

00:33:48.076 --> 00:33:49.945
then supplement it.

00:33:49.996 --> 00:33:51.256
That's what an SSRI

00:33:51.790 --> 00:33:52.201
Yeah.

00:33:52.691 --> 00:33:52.951
Yeah.

00:33:52.951 --> 00:33:55.810
That's a really good way of putting it actually as a supplement for your brain.

00:33:56.371 --> 00:33:58.830
And I'm guessing that you're a big advocate of therapy.

00:33:58.881 --> 00:34:00.750
I mean, I love a bit of therapy.

00:34:02.135 --> 00:34:18.065
The relationship that you must build up with your, your client, clients, uh, therapy clients, um, you must see them at various points in their cycle, and that must be very interesting from a professional perspective to kind of sit opposite somebody and see the direct impact that's happening.

00:34:19.425 --> 00:34:19.905
It is.

00:34:19.905 --> 00:34:20.925
It's, it, it, it, it is.

00:34:21.226 --> 00:34:25.215
Some, sometimes it is like having different people in the room with you.

00:34:26.445 --> 00:34:35.945
Um, and that, you know, we get lots of people who say, oh, I just, I just wanna have once, like once a month therapy, uh, when I'm just feeling awful.

00:34:36.186 --> 00:34:39.876
And, you know, I sort of say to people, it kind of doesn't work like that.

00:34:39.876 --> 00:34:43.025
Like, I need to see you in each phase of the cycle.

00:34:43.326 --> 00:34:49.235
And actually a lot of the work is done in follicular, you know, we are preparing ourselves, we are reflecting, we're.

00:34:50.505 --> 00:34:56.925
Holding on to this anchor of who we really are and building that up ready for going into Luteal.

00:34:56.925 --> 00:35:01.916
Um, and so, you know, there is a lot of work to be done in each phase of the cycle.

00:35:02.016 --> 00:35:05.865
It's not just, you know, when you're at your worst, you need therapy.

00:35:05.885 --> 00:35:06.235
So,

00:35:06.536 --> 00:35:12.985
yeah, because like you said at the beginning, the anxiety of how I might react prevented me from doing so many things.

00:35:13.786 --> 00:35:19.746
Now we've touched a little bit about, um, hysterectomies, but there's, is it, is it chemical menopause?

00:35:19.905 --> 00:35:21.766
Can you just tell me a little bit more about that?

00:35:22.065 --> 00:35:23.260
Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:23.271 --> 00:35:27.090
So, um, essentially it's an injection that you take.

00:35:27.150 --> 00:35:30.010
Um, you can do it monthly or three monthly.

00:35:30.431 --> 00:35:32.201
Um, it's usually an injection.

00:35:32.240 --> 00:35:40.541
Um, and essentially what it does is it puts your organs into menopause.

00:35:40.581 --> 00:35:43.340
So your, your ovaries kind of shutting down in that sense.

00:35:43.400 --> 00:36:02.525
And it's a really good tester for people to see whether, um, Having surgery is going to be a good option for them and a lot of the time it's prescribed in that way as a, you know, we'll do this for so many months and then go to the surgery.

00:36:02.885 --> 00:36:08.775
I think the reason for that is that it can, um, there are some sort of risks involved

00:36:09.076 --> 00:36:09.626
Mm hmm.

00:36:09.985 --> 00:36:12.195
I think, again, it's because you're going into.

00:36:12.630 --> 00:36:13.900
menopause early.

00:36:14.291 --> 00:36:31.565
Um, and so that you have to think about things like your bone health and develop osteoporosis, um, Yeah, and I think it increases your, um, chances of like cervical cancer and things like that as well as does the pill.

00:36:32.016 --> 00:36:32.635
Um,

00:36:33.161 --> 00:36:33.865
I know,

00:36:34.166 --> 00:36:35.356
not having a proper cycle.

00:36:35.365 --> 00:36:40.235
So I think it, um, Yeah, so there are risks involved.

00:36:40.346 --> 00:36:45.965
However, I think it is approved now to be, to have long term PMDD treatment.

00:36:46.356 --> 00:36:49.425
Um, but some doctors are still a bit wary about that.

00:36:49.445 --> 00:37:01.686
It just means that you have to go in from, you know, have bone density scans and have regular checkups, essentially, to make sure that you're managing it well, and it's not having too much of a adverse impact.

00:37:01.706 --> 00:37:06.215
And, you know, that sounds pretty scary when I say it like that, but.

00:37:06.746 --> 00:37:09.416
the alternative is living with the MDD every month.

00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:09.971
This is it.

00:37:09.971 --> 00:38:26.231
I'm thinking if you're so prepared that you will either have quite serious surgery, you know, I've had c sections, that was bad enough, um, or inject yourself with a chemical that could cause all sorts of other problems, Because the alternative is that you might not survive and that's a really tough choice to have to make and I'm People within your community They must have absolutely stared down the abyss to make that choice to put themselves through that sort of treatment And actually even the women that every single day get up and put their patches on and rub the testosterone cream in and take their vitamins It's, it's, it's more stuff for us to remember, it's more mental load, it's more responsibility and there's so much emphasis about right, take responsibility for your mental health, walk the steps, do the process, and that's all well and good, but that's really difficult to do if you're in the middle of a serious PMDD episode, I could, I probably could go two or three days without food or water in them because I wouldn't get it for myself, so my husband is very good and he will just come in with a glass of water if I'm, I mean, it doesn't happen very often where I go like, down, down, but, You, you neglect everything from hydration to brushing your teeth to just general care and so then when, um, you know, a well meaning friend may say, Oh, have you tried going for a run in the morning?

00:38:26.231 --> 00:38:30.070
I'm just like, I can't even brush my teeth, let alone go for a run.

00:38:30.510 --> 00:38:35.971
And I suppose there are, even in the depths of that sort of despair, there are still steps that you can take.

00:38:35.971 --> 00:38:38.050
And it might be, right, I'm going to brush my teeth today.

00:38:38.061 --> 00:38:42.516
It might be, I don't know, takeaway Think what to have for dinner.

00:38:42.516 --> 00:38:47.456
It just make your life easy when you're at your worst, when you're struggling your most.

00:38:47.755 --> 00:38:48.175
Absolutely.

00:38:48.405 --> 00:39:04.206
And I think it's giving yourself permission to do that, to, to lower your baseline of expectations because you're essentially your capacity and your, your ability to function is so different.

00:39:04.570 --> 00:39:15.391
At these parts of the cycle, so don't have the same expectations that you have on yourself when you're in follicular, because you just always going to set yourself up to fail in that way.

00:39:15.391 --> 00:39:24.001
And I think that mindset shift and actually embracing that can be embracing and accepting that can be really, really helpful

00:39:24.190 --> 00:39:25.130
It's quite liberating,

00:39:25.431 --> 00:39:26.661
yeah, like.

00:39:27.045 --> 00:39:38.076
Actually, I'm, I know I'm not doing that work today and it's okay if I don't get dressed and I'm, I am just gonna like, I don't know, watch TV and like, say, get a takeaway.

00:39:38.635 --> 00:39:40.746
I don't need to be super mom this week.

00:39:40.775 --> 00:39:42.815
I just need to keep myself going.

00:39:43.351 --> 00:39:48.831
what happens though, and I know this is a bit off topic But say for example, you have a a traditional job.

00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:56.800
You're a teacher you work in an office You're working, you know conventional hours and the pmdd is affecting you to the point that like we just discussed, you know You can't have that.

00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:57.650
I work for myself.

00:39:57.871 --> 00:40:11.896
It's it's a pain, but it's not the end of the world What, do you have any kind of, is there any guidance or how can you approach your employer and basically have them not just think, oh, it's PMT, I can't have half my workforce off for two weeks every month.

00:40:12.956 --> 00:40:16.175
I don't know, it feels a bit like it's a grey area for employers.

00:40:16.585 --> 00:40:17.206
Yeah.

00:40:17.215 --> 00:40:23.925
Well, I think it is, it is classed as a disability and so it is protected under the disability act.

00:40:24.405 --> 00:40:25.835
Um, so there's that.

00:40:26.195 --> 00:40:28.606
But I think that isn't always.

00:40:29.045 --> 00:40:40.376
The most helpful for people and because you obviously you still have to work with your boss and so for lots of people, you know, if they've got a supportive boss, great.

00:40:40.385 --> 00:40:47.306
And they can have those reasonable adjustments, whether that's being able to work from home, being able to do flexible hours.

00:40:47.655 --> 00:41:02.155
Um, you know, well, even just having the awareness around it, like if you're a teacher, for example, maybe you don't have to lead assembly that week or, you know, whatever it is like, there's little things that you can do in work just to make it a little bit more tolerable.

00:41:02.646 --> 00:41:03.505
Um,

00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:08.331
think I'd say to my boss, I could, you pay me for a month, I'll do everything in two weeks.

00:41:08.581 --> 00:41:10.940
Like, super fast, and then nothing for the next,

00:41:11.240 --> 00:41:31.585
Yeah, and there's lots of people that work in that way and I think the work from home sort of movement towards that has really, really helped, you know, a lot of my clients have remote working jobs because it's so much easier to manage your time in that way and you know, yeah, getting great feedback in their appraisals, they're getting all their work done.

00:41:32.045 --> 00:41:36.465
But they come into therapy and tell me I did nothing for the last week, you know.

00:41:37.110 --> 00:41:43.380
I find, I mean, I, I love a list, so I'll, if I'm feeling a bit, You know, just shitty about myself.

00:41:43.411 --> 00:41:46.590
I'll make this list, I'll put stuff on it, even things I've already done so I can cross 'em

00:41:46.626 --> 00:41:47.590
Oh, I love that.

00:41:47.590 --> 00:41:48.213
Love that.

00:41:48.213 --> 00:41:48.525
A

00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:52.590
Just so I can look back at it and go, actually no, you didn't do nothing today.

00:41:53.206 --> 00:41:53.496
hundred

00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:57.751
because there's always things going on and, and talking about sort of giving yourself permission.

00:41:57.751 --> 00:42:02.070
Last, like it was last month, I just woke up and it, I came downstairs.

00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:03.121
I hadn't been very well.

00:42:03.121 --> 00:42:06.731
I'd had this horrible cold everyone's got and it was just one of those, no.

00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:08.070
I can't do it.

00:42:08.130 --> 00:42:17.610
And I gave myself permission to just go and stare at the wall until school pick up and either it, but then it only lasted that sort of few hours of the day and then it lifted.

00:42:17.621 --> 00:42:21.581
Whereas when you try and fight against it, it just gets worse, doesn't it?

00:42:21.581 --> 00:42:31.090
And the more you push yourself to be super mum or, you know, super wife, super girl, super friend, super whatever you're trying to prove, because you almost go over the top to try and prove that you're fine.

00:42:31.601 --> 00:42:33.280
You're cruising for a burn out, aren't you?

00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:34.074
Makes

00:42:34.775 --> 00:42:39.735
Like one that just takes a lot of energy, energy that you do not have.

00:42:40.346 --> 00:42:53.096
Um, and also when you're battling with yourself, You're basically telling yourself that you don't deserve this rest, that your worth is pinned on your productivity.

00:42:53.516 --> 00:43:00.846
And so, when you then eventually do crash and burn, you're going to be being really mean to yourself.

00:43:00.936 --> 00:43:04.268
And it is just going to exacerbate it, make it go on for much, much

00:43:04.606 --> 00:43:06.501
and then you're out of commission for longer.

00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:24.675
Why don't you just let yourself, you know, I say to people, if you can, like, take it a step further and really indulge in it, like, okay, I can't get out of bed today, I'm going to get back into bed once I've done the school run, that's fine, do that, put some fresh pyjamas

00:43:24.976 --> 00:43:25.635
Yes,

00:43:25.811 --> 00:43:33.465
a cup of tea, get your snacks ready, make it intentional, because I think that can make all the difference.

00:43:33.766 --> 00:43:34.315
right.

00:43:34.396 --> 00:43:34.996
You're so right.

00:43:35.425 --> 00:43:38.365
I, I also personally like to make sure my legs are shaved.

00:43:38.811 --> 00:43:39.695
Yeah, nice.

00:43:39.996 --> 00:43:42.295
Nothing, you can't get into clean bedding unless your legs are shaved.

00:43:42.295 --> 00:43:44.686
I don't know why, but that just adds something special to it.

00:43:45.166 --> 00:43:50.686
But that, I, even when you're feeling really crappy, even if it's just change your pajamas so you're less stinky, right?

00:43:51.025 --> 00:43:52.746
It just makes so much difference.

00:43:53.166 --> 00:43:53.965
I really like that.

00:43:53.965 --> 00:44:01.070
It's almost, not celebrating maybe a step too far, But yeah, just making it into as pleasant an experience as possible.

00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:02.570
Catch up on some crap TV.

00:44:02.581 --> 00:44:04.635
Like, I, I, I,

00:44:04.936 --> 00:44:09.356
embracing it, like it's here anyway, oh hi Luteal, come on, let's get

00:44:09.721 --> 00:44:10.751
let's have you.

00:44:11.335 --> 00:44:11.516
do it.

00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:19.570
Now we touch a little bit about what it's like, um, to be, let's call it PMDD adjacent.

00:44:19.710 --> 00:44:31.891
So if you live in a house with somebody who has PMDD and It takes a lot of understanding and support, and we already mentioned that it, you know, of course it can lead to relationship breakdowns.

00:44:32.581 --> 00:44:37.630
Have you got any advice that you can offer to people that are living with somebody that's experiencing this?

00:44:39.085 --> 00:44:57.016
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like people with PMDD, yeah, it's, it's gonna be a wild ride, but like they're, I, you know, they're some of the strongest people out there, um, to live with this, so that most of them are pretty awesome to be fair,

00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:01.550
And you do kind of come out of it, like, once you've done your sorries and stuff, you come out of it and you're like, yeah, I'm fine.

00:45:01.896 --> 00:45:02.295
What's wrong?

00:45:02.326 --> 00:45:02.996
What happened?

00:45:04.576 --> 00:45:09.820
um, I think knowing like it, it's not you,

00:45:10.146 --> 00:45:10.826
I think you're right.

00:45:10.826 --> 00:45:13.195
I think the understanding there is the key thing, isn't it?

00:45:13.485 --> 00:45:15.686
And it was actually my husband that found PMTD.

00:45:16.085 --> 00:45:19.826
He sent me a link and he, because that, actually this is a good link to talk about this.

00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:32.320
Borderline personality disorder, bipolar, these are all acronyms that many, many women with P-P-M-D-D will have been given and diagnosis would've been made.

00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:35.860
And I I, to be honest with you, I was really scared.

00:45:35.860 --> 00:45:38.740
I thought I had BPD, and you know, it's incurable and.

00:45:39.485 --> 00:46:22.905
Is this how I'm going to live and it was my husband that went but you're not like this all the time He was like and he obviously went away and did a bit of reading which is very sweet of him And he sent me a link to the PMDD and I'm reading it I'm thinking that's me and in much the way that getting a diagnosis of ADHD and autism was quite Liberating, because I understood myself, I was more compassionate to myself, this has done the same thing, and it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but my family understand that if I'm down, it's, sometimes I'll use code like I've got a migraine, because, you know, I don't want the kids to worry, and, you know, some of the thoughts that you have in a PMTD spiral are quite dark, so you have to sort of decide who it's appropriate to share it with.

00:46:22.971 --> 00:46:32.550
But the fact that I have got John, who is very, very empathetic and understanding, I taught, I've educated my friends, they all know lots about PNDT, and it means that I'm able to sort of teach them.

00:46:33.436 --> 00:46:47.456
understand and I guess not beat myself up quite so much and I think that probably applies to partners because if you, if you think that your, your wife or your girlfriend is just being horrible to you, that they hate you, that's horrible for them.

00:46:47.775 --> 00:46:51.425
But if you understand that it isn't, it isn't that they hate you, it's they hate everything.

00:46:51.425 --> 00:46:52.989
Breathing,

00:46:53.916 --> 00:47:11.456
And, and that they're just so overstimulated, you know, but so the irritability I think that comes out, it can literally be like, Oh, stop breathing so loud, you know, like so frustrating, so irritating, but it, yeah, it's not that you don't love them anymore.

00:47:12.016 --> 00:47:14.195
I, I think sometimes.

00:47:14.621 --> 00:47:24.231
It's really difficult to feel love when you're in Luteal, like, to connect with that sense of love, so sometimes it can feel like you don't love them anymore.

00:47:25.775 --> 00:47:29.215
But they're going to come back, like you're going to get back through it.

00:47:29.346 --> 00:47:41.856
Um, and so I think sometimes it is just holding on out and having impeccable communication all throughout the months, you know, don't just get into it.

00:47:41.865 --> 00:47:44.246
Once you're in Luteal, that's too late.

00:47:44.606 --> 00:47:48.905
Um, we need to be talking about it before we need to be talking about it.

00:47:48.985 --> 00:47:54.025
During it's riding the wave with them, trying to.

00:47:54.945 --> 00:47:56.786
Unburden them as much as possible.

00:47:56.795 --> 00:48:03.085
So I think the more demands that you have, the, the more difficult Luteal is going to be.

00:48:03.706 --> 00:48:12.436
So, you know, if you want to be a really supportive partner or housemate or friend, like, you know, just taking some of that load.

00:48:12.456 --> 00:48:19.641
So, you know, do a bit of the housework, put the kids to bed, like Make the dinner stuff like that can

00:48:19.940 --> 00:48:21.376
appointments is another good one.

00:48:21.686 --> 00:48:23.576
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:48:23.581 --> 00:48:27.221
I miss a lot of appointments if I'm in a bad place because I don't want to do it.

00:48:27.231 --> 00:48:30.130
And I also don't want to communicate with anybody and tell them I don't want to do it.

00:48:30.130 --> 00:48:34.340
So somebody can just step in and go, Oh, I'll send that text for you or I'll cancel that appointment.

00:48:34.650 --> 00:48:36.900
Those, those are, that's love language, isn't it?

00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:38.271
That's real love language.

00:48:38.690 --> 00:48:39.590
That's brilliant.

00:48:40.041 --> 00:48:40.431
Yeah.

00:48:40.431 --> 00:48:48.260
So this, there's loads of stuff like that that you can do, but I think, yeah, just knowing that it's not personal and knowing that your lovely partner is coming back,

00:48:49.190 --> 00:48:49.710
Yeah.

00:48:50.001 --> 00:48:52.940
you know, they're just, they're just struggling with it right now.

00:48:53.061 --> 00:48:53.751
Um,

00:48:53.851 --> 00:48:58.670
When I first started suffering with these, um, they, they, they're quite similar to an ADHD spiral.

00:48:58.681 --> 00:49:00.311
So I wasn't sure what was what.

00:49:01.190 --> 00:49:02.231
Um, and I.

00:49:02.570 --> 00:49:31.621
One day I was quite frustrated because this was early on and John didn't understand why, I think he thought I was just angry and hated him, and so he sort of kept his distance from me, um, and I, at that time I hadn't had any water, couldn't go to the bathroom or anything, so I just on my phone wrote this kind of list of things that you can do to support somebody in a spiral, and I've not really done anything with it, but I'm thinking maybe I'll shove it out on, on Instagram or something, because it's, it's quite a personal list, but it is stuff like just put a glass of water next to them, Like, tell them that you love them.

00:49:31.621 --> 00:49:33.030
They don't love themselves right now.

00:49:33.030 --> 00:49:34.076
Just tell them that you love them.

00:49:34.141 --> 00:49:36.900
Even if they're horrible, stinky, spiky snake thing in the bed.

00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:39.010
Just blow a kiss and tell 'em you love them.

00:49:39.721 --> 00:49:42.541
it's, it's just, it's finding a way to connect.

00:49:42.541 --> 00:49:46.981
It might be that you write some really little no and just like say, oh, I'm here when you need me.

00:49:47.670 --> 00:49:49.050
Anything that makes that walk.

00:49:49.050 --> 00:49:54.210
But I, it's that walk back downstairs, the walk of shame and you're like, I wanna, I want to rejoin my family.

00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:59.376
And I know they want me to rejoin them, but also that little snake at the back of my head saying, well, they don't want you now.

00:50:00.701 --> 00:50:02.141
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:02.141 --> 00:50:02.141
Yeah.

00:50:02.456 --> 00:50:03.326
It's horrible, isn't it?

00:50:03.666 --> 00:50:08.746
It's recognizing that voice for what it is as well, you know, naming it, you know, whether

00:50:08.885 --> 00:50:09.275
the snake.

00:50:09.826 --> 00:50:13.585
ah, the snake, I like that, yeah, uh, mine's called Angela,

00:50:13.851 --> 00:50:14.061
Is it?

00:50:16.251 --> 00:50:16.525
yeah,

00:50:16.550 --> 00:50:16.641
Oh.

00:50:17.615 --> 00:50:23.192
it, it's not you, it's the Piggie voice, and it's just nonsense, absolute garbage, great

00:50:23.300 --> 00:50:28.891
And there's something to be said for the kind of, um, therapist trick of talking, thinking, would you speak to your best friend like that?

00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:33.561
And it's giving that, cause that voice in your head that you're stuck with that forever.

00:50:33.610 --> 00:50:43.391
Like that's, it's one of those things that I'm trying to teach my kids is be your own friend, like be nice to yourself because if you don't, then you can't actually rely on anybody else.

00:50:43.391 --> 00:50:45.860
We like to think we can, but of course you can't always.

00:50:48.630 --> 00:50:48.840
So what?

00:50:49.766 --> 00:50:55.615
Within the PMDG Collective, what are you hoping that you'll see change in the future?

00:50:57.806 --> 00:50:58.135
Thanks.

00:51:05.025 --> 00:51:06.755
appointments, that would be awesome.

00:51:06.775 --> 00:51:08.215
not having to threaten the GMC.

00:51:08.516 --> 00:51:08.715
Yeah.

00:51:09.646 --> 00:51:13.115
Um, just more education in general.

00:51:13.115 --> 00:51:31.530
So we'd love to have people learning about PMDD alongside learning about their periods and really learning about how to track their cycle so that, you know, young girls and AFAB know that this is something that can happen when your periods start.

00:51:31.820 --> 00:51:39.681
And it's also something that might happen when you have a baby or when you go into perimenopause, you know, it, it can develop at any point really.

00:51:39.971 --> 00:51:45.201
And so, yeah, having that kind of awareness and education would be amazing.

00:51:45.340 --> 00:51:51.371
Um, I think it would be awesome if it was way more accepted in the workplace as and actually not.

00:51:52.905 --> 00:52:14.635
know, again, not having to advocate so hard, you know, I think this more even just generally about, you know, menstrual health, like, actually, I think there should be some, some sort of flexibility there, um, to people, um, but definitely people with PMDD should, yeah, should be allowed to have some sort of menstrual leave.

00:52:15.106 --> 00:52:17.525
Um, yeah, so

00:52:17.596 --> 00:52:18.706
What about in schools?

00:52:18.706 --> 00:52:24.175
I'm wondering because obviously this can happen, I mean, girls are starting their periods as young as eight or nine now.

00:52:24.576 --> 00:52:33.525
So you could end up with a child that's transitioning to secondary school and starts their periods and they just switch characters so unbelievably.

00:52:33.835 --> 00:52:37.295
And again, much like you can put down a lot of the symptoms to other people.

00:52:37.295 --> 00:52:46.606
Other disorders or, um, menopause in adult women, you might just be thinking, Oh, well, they've started secondary school, they've turned into an absolute rat bag.

00:52:47.161 --> 00:53:04.076
And I suppose there's an element of getting across to parents as well, that if your child is demonstrating mood fluctuations that are abnormal, that are concerning, they're showing signs of self loathing, ideations, harming, that is the point when you really need to get that child to the doctors.

00:53:04.166 --> 00:53:16.565
and you'd have to, you know, hold spartan, if you, I don't even know the answer to this, but if you have a child that was displaying HMD symptoms that was very reluctant to go to the doctor, can a parent go on their behalf?

00:53:16.675 --> 00:53:17.195
Do you know that?

00:53:17.195 --> 00:53:18.496
I don't, I can look it up, I guess.

00:53:18.576 --> 00:53:19.496
They

00:53:19.795 --> 00:53:20.746
I don't know for sure.

00:53:20.746 --> 00:53:28.976
I guess if there's still child, then yes, GP would probably be willing to talk to them about it, but I don't know what they would.

00:53:29.385 --> 00:53:30.971
might not be able to prescribe anything.

00:53:31.271 --> 00:53:34.911
they might not be able to prescribe without seeing them themselves.

00:53:35.371 --> 00:53:46.541
They might be able to make a referral, though, um, you know, if they, it would probably be quite likely that they would refer to, like, CAMHS, or like mental health, um, services, perhaps.

00:53:46.541 --> 00:53:47.880
So they might do that.

00:53:48.536 --> 00:53:49.885
again, this is an opportune,

00:53:49.951 --> 00:53:56.510
access things like the school nurse or school counsellor might be another way to do it, so that it's a little bit less intimidating, perhaps.

00:53:56.516 --> 00:53:58.856
I'm seeing like a pack for secondary schools here.

00:53:58.856 --> 00:54:01.675
I'm thinking that, that this would be something really beneficial.

00:54:01.706 --> 00:54:09.106
Whilst I was having a look at your website, um, you've got a, um, a section on blogs, which is essentially people's stories of living with PMDD.

00:54:09.755 --> 00:54:16.666
And I just kind of wanted to finish this episode really, because this, um, quote that I've written down here really, really touched me.

00:54:16.726 --> 00:54:27.760
Um, uh, So I think her name was Amy, so she started her periods and lost control of her emotions, um, and that kind of stereotype, angry teenage, and I would just talked about.

00:54:28.690 --> 00:54:40.530
And then I'm paraphrasing here, but she describes this, the, the, the emotional pain has, as being so great that you can, it can make you want to just stop by any means possible.

00:54:41.661 --> 00:54:44.661
And we know what we're talking about now, and we touched on it throughout the episode.

00:54:44.731 --> 00:54:48.951
And I just, I just wanted to end on that really, really kind of.

00:54:50.101 --> 00:55:01.001
I don't know, touching, moving, heartbreaking sentiment that women in this country are getting to the point where they feel like the only way out is to possibly end their own lives.

00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:05.701
Whereas the treatment is something as simple as Sertraline and some hormones, right?

00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:07.860
It doesn't require psychiatric treatment.

00:55:07.990 --> 00:55:08.960
institutions.

00:55:09.210 --> 00:55:12.181
I, I was sent to a psychiatric institution as a teenager.

00:55:12.610 --> 00:55:26.030
Um, and I'm also thinking how short sighted it is because if the intervention happens to the young, there'd be so much less pressure on the, on health services because it isn't, I'm going to ask actually, is it a mental health disorder?

00:55:27.931 --> 00:55:30.701
It's kind of in a bit of a grey area, to be honest.

00:55:30.710 --> 00:55:31.360
So it is.

00:55:32.115 --> 00:55:37.056
I think it is under mental health in the diagnostic manual.

00:55:37.056 --> 00:55:38.585
I got off the top of my head though.

00:55:38.585 --> 00:55:38.815
So I'm not a

00:55:38.971 --> 00:55:39.601
I'm impressed.

00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:47.775
Um, but I think this is the issue with PMDD because actually some people get sent to the psychiatrist.

00:55:47.945 --> 00:55:50.675
Some people get sent to the gynecologist randomly.

00:55:50.675 --> 00:55:54.655
So like some people get sent to endocrinologists, which are like the hormone people.

00:55:54.655 --> 00:55:56.706
Um, and so really.

00:55:57.001 --> 00:55:58.690
Everyone can be like, oh, that's not me.

00:55:58.860 --> 00:56:08.550
I think generally it is more gynecology, because if it gets, like, the treatment plan, if it gets to chemical menopause, surgical menopause, it's going to be

00:56:08.851 --> 00:56:10.021
it's all to do with that.

00:56:10.121 --> 00:56:14.990
Um, but some people are treated under psychiatry for it.

00:56:15.391 --> 00:56:22.130
Um, so yeah, it is a little bit of a gray area, but you're absolutely right.

00:56:22.130 --> 00:56:27.280
And I think so before training and therapy, I was a mental health nurse.

00:56:27.670 --> 00:56:34.260
And so I nursed on a children's and a young person's ward and I'm, I didn't know about PMDD then.

00:56:34.590 --> 00:56:35.610
But looking back, right.

00:56:35.956 --> 00:56:58.146
back, I'm like, Oh, like, there's definitely young girls that I worked with that we were treating for borderline personality disorder or, you know, emotionally unstable personality disorder, um, even psychosis, actually, um, psychosis with autism that I'm thinking, what's that psychosis?

00:56:58.670 --> 00:57:00.411
was that PMDD with autism?

00:57:00.916 --> 00:57:02.266
with autism and

00:57:02.311 --> 00:57:06.291
then you factor in the undiagnosed girls with autism, so you've got this

00:57:06.356 --> 00:57:06.516
Exactly.

00:57:06.775 --> 00:57:07.286
Yeah.

00:57:07.286 --> 00:57:20.925
And you know, I look back and I just, it really tears me apart actually to think about that because yeah, the treatment wasn't working and maybe it wasn't working for a reason and they were suffering so much.

00:57:21.226 --> 00:57:22.380
but look what you're doing now.

00:57:22.981 --> 00:57:23.911
Look what you're doing now.

00:57:23.981 --> 00:57:36.161
You've taken, you can't know what you don't know, and now you know it, you're advocating and fighting for better support for women and creating a community around something that has been hidden in the shadows for far too long.

00:57:36.751 --> 00:57:42.585
And I think, you know, I asked you on here today and I was so delighted when you said yes, I was a bit fangirling.

00:57:42.585 --> 00:57:43.315
I was like, please don't come on my podcast.

00:57:43.315 --> 00:57:50.126
But I'm so delighted that you did because I, as I've said many times in this episode, I have PMDD.

00:57:50.175 --> 00:57:51.666
I understand what it feels like.

00:57:51.675 --> 00:57:55.465
I know how terrifying it is and I know how it feels to not know what's wrong with you.

00:57:56.536 --> 00:58:08.070
And I hope, I hope, And I believe that this episode will really help so many people and I will urge you to go to the PMD collective website if you are concerned you've got any more questions because there's loads and loads of information.

00:58:08.101 --> 00:58:11.030
I filled two pages of my notepad with, with research.

00:58:12.070 --> 00:58:14.880
But for now, Ali, it's been a real pleasure to meet you.

00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:17.201
I'm so glad that I got to meet you and talk to you.

00:58:17.221 --> 00:58:23.840
And, um, if anybody out there has got questions, you can send them to me and I can send them to Ali and I'm sure she'd be happy to answer

00:58:23.865 --> 00:58:25.365
yeah, absolutely.

00:58:25.416 --> 00:58:28.655
Or, you know, our inbox is always open as well on our Instagram.

00:58:28.666 --> 00:58:32.956
So yeah, you can DM us on there or drop us an email or

00:58:33.041 --> 00:58:35.170
confirm they do reply because that's how I message too.

00:58:37.365 --> 00:58:48.135
But thank you ever so much, and I hope that you found this episode informative, I hope that you haven't felt too sad listening to it, um, and if you do need additional support then we will signpost you in the notes of the episode.

00:58:48.905 --> 00:58:53.235
But for now, lots of love to everybody out there, it's Obra and out from me.