Sept. 16, 2024

S1 - EP6 - Hormones and Health: Understanding the Female Body and Menopause with Dr Louise Newson

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S1 - EP6 - Hormones and Health: Understanding the Female Body and Menopause with Dr Louise Newson
S1 - EP6 - Hormones and Health: Understanding the Female Body and Menopause with Dr Louise Newson
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Season 1

"Did you know that hormone changes don’t just affect women’s bodies—they impact emotions, relationships, and overall health in ways many people don’t fully understand?"

In this episode of Chatty-AF, Rosie Gill-Moss speaks with Dr. Louise Newson, an ward-winning doctor, educator, and author and member of the UK Government’s Menopause Taskforce , to demystify hormones and their impact on health. Whether you're a woman experiencing these changes or a partner wanting to understand more, this episode covers everything from the science behind hormone shifts to practical advice on managing menopause symptoms.

What you’ll learn:

  • How hormone levels affect physical and emotional health.
  • Common myths and truths about menopause.
  • Practical tips for managing symptoms like hot flashes, mood swings, and more.


Guest Info:
Dr. Louise Newson is a GP, menopause specialist, and founder of the Newson Health Menopause Clinic. She is also the author of The Definitive Guide to the Perimenopause and Menopause. Learn more about her work on her website.

Timestamps:

  • 02:15 – Hormones and the female body: An overview
  • 12:45 – Understanding menopause: Facts vs. fiction
  • 25:30 – How men can support their partners during menopause
  • 38:00 – Practical strategies for symptom management


Listen now to gain valuable insights whether you’re navigating these changes yourself or supporting a loved one.


Resources/Links
Newson Health
Dr. Louise Newson - Live UK Theatre Tour - Ticket Information
Dr. Louise Newson - Menopause Masterclass


Connect with the show
Web : https://www.chatty-af.com/
Instagram : @chatty_af_podcast and @rosie_gill_moss

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Disclaimers: The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. The experiences and opinions expressed by the guest are personal and should not be taken as general advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional support for similar issues. The producers and host are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information provided in this episode.

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.495 --> 00:00:05.185
Hello and welcome back to Extraordinary People.

00:00:05.185 --> 00:00:08.836
I'm your host, I'm Rosie Gill-Moss, and it is my pleasure to have you with me.

00:00:09.525 --> 00:00:21.486
Today's episode is about menopause, or perimenopause, something which many, many of my age will be experiencing, as will the people that they live with, because this is an intergenerational issue.

00:00:21.536 --> 00:00:25.626
It affects everybody and anybody that we, that we come into contact with.

00:00:26.486 --> 00:00:29.021
Um, and I just I had so many questions.

00:00:29.041 --> 00:00:30.751
I'm under the care of Louise's clinic.

00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:32.250
Um, I pay for it.

00:00:32.250 --> 00:00:32.960
This is not an advert.

00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:37.551
And it is no understatement to say she has, or the clinic has changed my life.

00:00:37.860 --> 00:00:40.621
So, I was really, really excited to speak to you.

00:00:40.621 --> 00:00:43.640
You can probably hear in my voice I'm a little bit nervous throughout some of the interview.

00:00:43.691 --> 00:00:44.801
Um, and I did, I did.

00:00:45.100 --> 00:00:50.021
Uh, points interject with some ramblings, but you know, you guys have come to connect, expect nothing less, right?

00:00:50.761 --> 00:00:57.191
So in a moment, you're going to hear my conversation with Louise and I, I hope, I hope that you get something from it.

00:00:57.191 --> 00:00:57.951
I certainly did.

00:00:57.981 --> 00:00:58.990
I learned quite a lot.

00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:03.271
And we also talked about the fact that she lost her dad when she was nine.

00:01:03.271 --> 00:01:09.740
So it was one of those lovely conversations that I had, you know, this very prescriptive list of what I was going to ask her.

00:01:10.100 --> 00:01:10.581
It all went off.

00:01:10.891 --> 00:01:14.290
But it was really, really fascinating and I hope that you get something from it too.

00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.706
I'll speak to you soon.

00:01:17.745 --> 00:01:19.596
Hello, and welcome back.

00:01:19.596 --> 00:01:21.236
You're here with me, Rosie Gill-Moss.

00:01:21.256 --> 00:01:23.786
I'm your host and joining me today.

00:01:23.865 --> 00:01:25.486
I have got quite a special guest.

00:01:25.516 --> 00:01:33.365
Um, those of you who know me know that menopause is or perimenopause is one of my favorite things to talk about because it's something I'm immersed in at the moment.

00:01:34.256 --> 00:01:38.355
And through my sort of journey to get some support, I was introduced to Newsome Health.

00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:43.251
Now, Louise Newson, who is my guest today, is a menopause specialist.

00:01:43.281 --> 00:01:47.411
She's the founder of Newson Health, member of the government task force on menopause.

00:01:47.710 --> 00:01:48.891
This is a long list of things, Louise.

00:01:49.510 --> 00:01:59.180
Um, an author and you are also a mom as well, which I think is really relevant here, because one of the things I want to talk to you about is how menopause impacts your relationship with your children.

00:02:00.075 --> 00:02:04.555
So quite the intro, but as I say, we are sort of in the, in the presence of greatness today.

00:02:04.555 --> 00:02:13.536
And anybody who has been, who is going through, excuse me, perimenopause, and I guess for men as well out there, because so many of you are about to be affected by this.

00:02:13.626 --> 00:02:20.355
And I just think it's amazing that we get the opportunity to talk to, talk to you and kind of ask any questions that might be floating around in my head.

00:02:20.866 --> 00:02:23.665
So welcome to the podcast, Louise, and thank you for joining me.

00:02:23.975 --> 00:02:27.165
Thanks for inviting me and thanks for such a lovely introduction.

00:02:27.816 --> 00:02:28.675
The five minute intro.

00:02:30.936 --> 00:02:32.466
Yeah, I do have a tendency to go on a tangent.

00:02:32.675 --> 00:02:32.985
Funny that.

00:02:33.735 --> 00:02:39.406
Um, so Louise, one of the things I really wanted to ask you about and just to sort of kick things off, and I know this is all out there.

00:02:39.406 --> 00:02:48.836
If people want to research you and find out a bit more about your background, but it's just a little bit of, um, kind of the why, what pushed you into this area of women's health and particularly menopause?

00:02:48.885 --> 00:02:52.640
And I think you've been described as I've got it here.

00:02:52.651 --> 00:02:56.591
The medic who, the medic who kick started the menopause revolution.

00:02:56.600 --> 00:02:58.260
Now that's quite the accolade.

00:02:58.260 --> 00:03:01.670
So just tell me a little bit about the why and how, if you will.

00:03:02.175 --> 00:03:11.566
Yeah, so I've had quite an interesting background in that, um, I trained obviously as a doctor, but I also took a year out and did a pathology degree, so a science degree as well.

00:03:11.876 --> 00:03:15.825
Did a lot of hospital medicine, then went into general practice 25 years ago.

00:03:16.475 --> 00:03:22.991
Um, and then I worked part time because as you say, I've got children, I've got three daughters, and I didn't want to be a full time nurse.

00:03:23.381 --> 00:03:31.020
Um, doing on call hospital medicine with a husband who is a surgeon also doing on call medicine, you know, hospital work and not seeing my children.

00:03:31.031 --> 00:03:35.901
My father died when I was nine and I remember him and I want my children to remember and know who I am.

00:03:36.320 --> 00:03:44.765
So I went part time into general practice, but I didn't really enjoy the coffee mornings and the the sort of chit chat you have with children and mothers.

00:03:44.955 --> 00:03:50.015
And I wanted to be stimulated, so I, I did a lot of evidence based medicine.

00:03:50.015 --> 00:03:54.235
I wrote books for, uh, GPs to learn about evidence.

00:03:54.235 --> 00:03:56.235
I'd summarize guidelines, summarize things.

00:03:56.431 --> 00:04:03.341
difficult papers so they could just literally read top lines to help them work in all sorts of areas of medicine.

00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:21.091
So in heart disease and diabetes and blood pressure and kidney disease, autoimmune diseases, everything really, which is a great way because when you write about things, You have to know the facts, but then I also worked up with the Royal College of GPs reviewing guidelines as they came up again for GPs.

00:04:21.091 --> 00:04:26.961
So going to the literature, summarizing the guidelines, enabling them to know very quickly what was going on and what was in the guidelines.

00:04:27.370 --> 00:04:31.850
So in 2015, I summarized the menopause, um, NICE guidance that came out.

00:04:32.350 --> 00:04:35.930
So it led me to go back to all the studies, including the breast cancer study.

00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:38.310
And just actually being outraged.

00:04:38.310 --> 00:04:44.120
I remember reading them and reading them again and again and again and thinking, but why are women not being listened to?

00:04:44.451 --> 00:04:46.721
Why are we being turned away from HRT?

00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:49.930
Why are we being even told it's associated with breast cancer?

00:04:50.271 --> 00:04:54.740
Because the HRT we prescribe now isn't even the HRT used in that study.

00:04:55.141 --> 00:04:59.701
Like, so then I started to get quite outraged, but it was eight years ago.

00:04:59.701 --> 00:05:01.005
Um, I was 45.

00:05:01.805 --> 00:05:12.886
Some of my friends were perimenopausal, embarrassingly, I was too, but took me six months to realize having a horrendous time at the, um, and I just learned more and more.

00:05:13.396 --> 00:05:17.795
And then my friends were starting to come out of their doctors saying, Oh, I've been given a treatment.

00:05:17.795 --> 00:05:18.565
I said, that's great.

00:05:18.586 --> 00:05:19.776
What type of HRT?

00:05:19.846 --> 00:05:24.125
Oh, no, I've been given Citalopram, Benlafaxine, Sertraline.

00:05:24.125 --> 00:05:24.326
What?

00:05:24.326 --> 00:05:25.216
They're antidepressants.

00:05:25.216 --> 00:05:26.266
You're not depressed.

00:05:26.766 --> 00:05:29.786
Oh, well, my doctor said I can't have HRT because it's too dangerous.

00:05:30.776 --> 00:05:30.886
What?

00:05:30.886 --> 00:05:31.526
What's going on?

00:05:31.536 --> 00:05:42.906
So I started to play with the media, develop my social media, educate women, set up a clinic to help some of my friends get on HRT properly, if that's what they wanted.

00:05:43.565 --> 00:05:45.235
And then it just morphed.

00:05:45.295 --> 00:05:48.315
And the more I work, I do, the more stories I hear.

00:05:48.995 --> 00:05:53.995
And the more outraged I am actually, because menopause affects a hundred percent of women.

00:05:53.995 --> 00:05:59.795
Most of us will be perimenopause, this time of flux when our hormones run over the place, which is actually often worse than the menopause.

00:06:00.901 --> 00:06:09.050
But most of us also have PMS and at least 20%, probably, it varies what you read, but it doesn't really matter.

00:06:09.161 --> 00:06:11.050
Women are having PMDD.

00:06:11.721 --> 00:06:21.100
And also, you know, I've got, yeah, and I've got three daughters and even when I was pregnant, I was told, Oh, Louise, you're going to have this baby blues.

00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:24.120
You're going to have some brain, baby sort of brain fog.

00:06:24.550 --> 00:06:29.141
You're going to find it painful when you have sex with your husband, even though you've known him for 20 years.

00:06:29.836 --> 00:06:32.935
And you're going to feel sweaty at night when your milk comes in.

00:06:32.935 --> 00:06:34.055
I was like, okay, okay.

00:06:34.516 --> 00:06:38.935
Why didn't someone tell me your hormones are 55, 000, your estrogen level will be 55, 000.

00:06:38.985 --> 00:06:44.466
It will drop overnight and you will experience a hormonal change like you've never had before.

00:06:45.146 --> 00:06:45.656
Because.

00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.000
It's taken me years to even understand that.

00:06:48.641 --> 00:06:54.680
So this whole injustice to women and us being scared of our hormones is absolutely ridiculous.

00:06:54.821 --> 00:06:58.120
We're not scared of insulin, we're not scared of thyroxine, we're not scared of other hormones.

00:06:59.281 --> 00:07:04.850
And they're not even sex hormones, because men produce estrogen and progesterone, and we produce testosterone.

00:07:05.211 --> 00:07:07.071
You know, they're heterosexual hormones.

00:07:07.656 --> 00:07:10.305
that we've got this whole agenda about it.

00:07:10.495 --> 00:07:16.415
And before I carry on, I do no paid work with pharma, so I don't have any pharmaceutical company.

00:07:16.576 --> 00:07:23.505
And that's very important because there's a lot of doctors, menopause specialists, menopause charities that are funded by pharma.

00:07:23.526 --> 00:07:25.105
And it means they have their own interests.

00:07:25.105 --> 00:07:29.776
And I, my interest is to help women feel better, but live better as well.

00:07:31.201 --> 00:07:42.000
That's made me go all goose bumpy, actually, that has, because you do need somebody to be at the forefront of this, somebody who was studying pathology while most of us were rocking back and forth with small children, so well done.

00:07:43.211 --> 00:07:50.831
Um, but you talked here about this, so I'm just going to draw you back onto PMDD because this is something I didn't even know existed.

00:07:51.141 --> 00:07:53.690
It's, it's premenstrual dysmorphic disorder.

00:07:53.690 --> 00:07:54.271
Is that right?

00:07:54.550 --> 00:07:55.031
Yes.

00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:59.261
So it basically means you've got PMS, which is premenstrual syndrome.

00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:02.401
So I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this podcast, but you

00:08:02.430 --> 00:08:02.911
Of course you are.

00:08:02.930 --> 00:08:11.230
shit just before your period, but you feel really shit, like it affects people different ways, physically and psychologically.

00:08:11.261 --> 00:08:22.810
So, and they're all menopausal symptoms, by the way, or perimenopausal symptoms, because they're symptoms related to changing, So people often feel very anxious, very low, very dark.

00:08:22.841 --> 00:08:26.180
They ruminate a lot, they catastrophize, they overthink.

00:08:26.711 --> 00:08:31.350
But they might also have palpitations, they might have dry skin, they might have cystitis.

00:08:31.911 --> 00:08:38.270
They might have reflux, they might have change in brown habit, they might have headaches or migraines.

00:08:38.791 --> 00:08:40.791
And it's a pattern recognition thing.

00:08:41.250 --> 00:08:46.331
So if you like, obviously I, um, created balance apps so people could monitor symptoms.

00:08:46.370 --> 00:08:48.530
It's not just for waiting till you're menopausal.

00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:57.831
So if you monitor your periods and your symptoms, and you're noticing you're getting symptoms for those few days before your periods, it's not rocket science.

00:08:57.890 --> 00:09:02.301
Our hormones change just before our Periods, they get very low.

00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:07.390
So if you're noticing those symptoms, then it's either PMS or PMDD.

00:09:07.410 --> 00:09:08.650
And these are just labels.

00:09:08.770 --> 00:09:11.350
We're very good as doctors giving labels to people.

00:09:11.701 --> 00:09:15.410
I don't really care whether it's perimenopause or menopause.

00:09:15.441 --> 00:09:18.451
It is a hormonal change that's affecting that woman.

00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:21.000
And that's where we have to change the conversation.

00:09:21.030 --> 00:09:24.150
Because if there's a hormonal change, what do we do?

00:09:24.150 --> 00:09:25.551
We replace the missing hormones.

00:09:25.551 --> 00:09:37.701
And for a lot of women with PMS and PMDD, Change, give those hormones for those few days where they're suffering, because the rest of the month they might feel fine because they've got adequate hormones in their brain and their organs and their system.

00:09:39.806 --> 00:09:54.456
And this, the PMDD thing, it was, it was actually my husband that found it because as I hit what I now know as perimenopause, um, I was suffering, also my coil, because the marina coil is often the first line of defense, isn't it, for PMDD.

00:09:54.936 --> 00:09:59.206
And I, it's, I won't bore you with the graphic details, but it's stuck.

00:09:59.546 --> 00:10:00.451
So it's, it's.

00:10:00.571 --> 00:10:01.100
It's lost.

00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:03.191
It's, it doesn't function anymore.

00:10:03.191 --> 00:10:05.421
I'm scheduled to have it taken out in a general, which is nice.

00:10:05.880 --> 00:10:12.691
Um, but it meant that I was suddenly having these real catastrophizing thoughts, these ideations.

00:10:12.780 --> 00:10:19.250
I, I felt, and the only way I can describe it, and having read your book, I now understand why, is how I felt at 17.

00:10:19.770 --> 00:10:23.921
I was quite a, Stable child, you know, I was quite, in inverted commas, normal.

00:10:23.921 --> 00:10:29.100
And as I hit puberty, I, I hit it like, the way I describe it would be like a bus into a brick wall.

00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:32.630
I, I was very troubled would probably be the word.

00:10:32.630 --> 00:10:36.181
I was also undiagnosed neurodivergent, which I think obviously is a factor here.

00:10:36.181 --> 00:10:38.010
But this is how I felt again.

00:10:38.061 --> 00:10:41.341
You know, there's, there's a, there's a dent in my bathroom wall from where I hit the wall.

00:10:41.341 --> 00:10:41.451
I threw a.

00:10:42.355 --> 00:10:47.475
Giraffe, um, kitchen roll holder, unfortunately at the floor, I hasten to add, but there's a dent in my floor.

00:10:48.296 --> 00:10:51.605
I'm behaving like an out of control teenager, what on earth is going on?

00:10:52.245 --> 00:11:01.285
And it was, you know, subsequently I was able to, you know, obtain HRT and I, I started off with the, um, with the combined, the test, the, oestrogen.

00:11:01.846 --> 00:11:04.395
And then it was through your clinic, the testosterone was introduced.

00:11:04.395 --> 00:11:11.485
And actually, I think that's the thing that's made the biggest difference to me in terms of anxiety and mood swings and the sort of, and the low moods.

00:11:11.995 --> 00:11:15.225
Um, and that's really difficult to get hold of, isn't it?

00:11:15.255 --> 00:11:17.316
You can't go to your GP and say, I'm perimenopausal.

00:11:17.576 --> 00:11:18.355
Or they might.

00:11:18.355 --> 00:11:33.446
You might, if you are lucky and you've got a sympathetic one, you might get estrogen, progesterone, I did from my gp, but you say the word testosterone and it's only licensed for low libido and vaginal dryness for starters, which kind of shows you where their priorities are because who does that affect?

00:11:33.505 --> 00:11:34.105
Men, right?

00:11:34.525 --> 00:11:34.826
So.

00:11:35.446 --> 00:11:39.495
You can't have it for your, um, anxiety, your low mood, your restlessness, your sleep.

00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:40.740
Why is that?

00:11:40.875 --> 00:11:42.676
Why are they so behind on this?

00:11:42.676 --> 00:11:42.735
Mm

00:11:43.760 --> 00:11:45.260
Well, because it's about women, isn't it?

00:11:45.260 --> 00:11:48.221
Women are always, you know, not listened to, not believed.

00:11:48.581 --> 00:11:55.390
Um, and, and it's also, it's not actually, testosterone is not even licensed for UK or many other countries.

00:11:55.390 --> 00:11:59.390
It's only licensed in Australia, but we are able to prescribe it.

00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:01.441
There's lots of things in medicine we prescribe.

00:12:01.525 --> 00:12:02.275
off license.

00:12:02.285 --> 00:12:09.245
So lots of medication, for example, in children isn't licensed, but we know it's safe, we know it's effective, so we can still prescribe it.

00:12:09.696 --> 00:12:14.655
So in the NHS, you can only prescribe the male testosterone, because of course they have it licensed for them,

00:12:15.235 --> 00:12:15.745
of course,

00:12:15.916 --> 00:12:16.785
in the lower dose.

00:12:16.816 --> 00:12:22.926
Because we produce testosterone, it's the same hormone, but it's a lower amount, obviously, that we have compared to men.

00:12:23.730 --> 00:12:33.041
So we can prescribe it, but you're right, the guidelines state we can only consider it if women have reduced sexual desire despite taking HRT.

00:12:33.171 --> 00:12:46.130
Now most women at some stage have reduced sexual desire, um, but we also know from our huge clinical experience and from others who prescribe testosterone that it's not just libido, it can help with mood as well.

00:12:46.171 --> 00:12:50.520
energy concentration, stamina, it can help people function better.

00:12:51.181 --> 00:12:55.951
And actually a lot of women with ADHD say they feel they can think clearer.

00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.301
It's less fragmented.

00:12:57.301 --> 00:12:59.020
It's less chaos in their brain.

00:12:59.385 --> 00:13:03.796
I was on 72 milligrams of a DH ADHD meds every day, and I'm now on 10.

00:13:04.245 --> 00:13:09.046
Um, and the, the only the correlation is, is the start is the combined team.

00:13:09.801 --> 00:13:10.260
Yeah.

00:13:10.311 --> 00:13:16.160
And, and the thing is in medicine, if I don't understand something, I am like an annoying two year old.

00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:18.811
And I'll just say, but why, why is it?

00:13:19.280 --> 00:13:28.051
And so then, I go back to my physiology, pathology, basic science notes, and you think, gosh, guess what?

00:13:28.051 --> 00:13:29.980
Testosterone works all over our brain.

00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:32.071
It's produced and made in our brain.

00:13:32.510 --> 00:13:34.760
So our brain needs it for processing.

00:13:35.140 --> 00:13:38.990
It works with other neurotransmitters, so other chemicals in our brain.

00:13:39.390 --> 00:13:44.461
So it helps levels of dopamine, and serotonin, and adrenaline, and cortisol.

00:13:45.010 --> 00:13:46.211
So of course it has important roles.

00:13:47.346 --> 00:13:58.586
So, our brain also likes things very calm, it likes homeostasis, it likes it when we feed it properly, and we give it enough water, and we give it enough sleep.

00:13:59.125 --> 00:14:05.541
But also, in this perimenopause, or with PMS, PMDD, we have these chaotic levels of hormones.

00:14:05.910 --> 00:14:11.280
So it means our hormone levels are going up and down and our brain is responding in weird ways to that.

00:14:11.811 --> 00:14:15.561
So it's not always because the hormone levels are low, it's because they're changing.

00:14:15.951 --> 00:14:22.120
So if we replace the hormones in a nice steady state, it will help the brain to function.

00:14:22.610 --> 00:14:29.171
So we don't always need complicated big studies to show something that's very obvious in medicine.

00:14:29.171 --> 00:14:41.576
But what we do need to know Or what we do need to do rather is have a joined up thinking where other people understand basic pathophysiology.

00:14:41.615 --> 00:14:49.316
And too often, any hormonal issue is dealt with by gynecologists who don't think above the ovaries.

00:14:49.775 --> 00:14:52.576
They don't understand that these hormones are produced in our brain.

00:14:52.865 --> 00:14:59.346
They see it as a function of our wombs and about our bleeding and about whether we can get pregnant or not.

00:14:59.946 --> 00:15:05.775
And as you know, and everyone listening to this podcast knows, women are more than just their womb and ovaries.

00:15:06.475 --> 00:15:16.865
And until we have this joined up thinking, this less siloed medicine, it's always going to be difficult for women to be acknowledged, heard, and also offer the right treatment.

00:15:18.426 --> 00:15:34.755
Actually, there's a huge inequality within our gender as well because you I pay to to access your clinic and that's the only way that I can access this third sort of piece of the puzzle, which is actually the pharmacist at the local chemist.

00:15:34.755 --> 00:15:37.576
when I started on the HRT, she said, Oh, make sure you get testosterone.

00:15:37.676 --> 00:15:38.755
And I was like, why?

00:15:39.255 --> 00:15:44.155
And then yeah, and then I went on to this kind of, you know, this Deep dive into why I need a testosterone.

00:15:44.995 --> 00:15:50.105
Now, it's not, it actually is less expensive than I thought it would be because you offer a clinic online.

00:15:50.115 --> 00:15:53.926
So you're not having to pay for in person appointments, but it is still, you know, it is a cost.

00:15:53.956 --> 00:16:01.546
So there's a huge inequality in terms of what you can access in terms of your finances, which seems and is really, really unfair.

00:16:02.336 --> 00:16:07.510
So yes, there is You can access it, but only if you can pay for it at the moment.

00:16:07.541 --> 00:16:15.921
So I know that, um, I know that there has been studies done, and I think you've done, you did a podcast on inequality in, in, um, access to HRT and things.

00:16:15.921 --> 00:16:20.181
And I'm just wondering if you think there's any chance of this changing anytime soon?

00:16:22.385 --> 00:16:24.566
I'd love to say yes, and I think it will have to.

00:16:24.566 --> 00:16:27.446
So, um, you know, it's awful that women have to pay.

00:16:27.596 --> 00:16:29.416
It's awful that I have a private clinic.

00:16:29.416 --> 00:16:33.296
It's awful that I see women from all socioeconomic classes through the clinic.

00:16:33.525 --> 00:16:36.791
A lot of them really can't afford, but they want the job.

00:16:36.921 --> 00:16:38.201
They want their partner to come back

00:16:38.260 --> 00:16:38.620
They want their

00:16:38.671 --> 00:16:39.380
want their life.

00:16:39.961 --> 00:16:42.730
And a lot of women say it's the best money I ever spent.

00:16:43.061 --> 00:16:48.311
But what we do do as an organization is use a lot of that money to reach other people.

00:16:48.321 --> 00:16:50.490
So we're reaching people through our free app.

00:16:50.530 --> 00:16:52.110
I do a lot of outreach work.

00:16:52.110 --> 00:16:53.441
We do a lot of charity work.

00:16:53.931 --> 00:16:59.821
We, I've been working a lot in prisons recently, um, obviously without being paid, of course.

00:17:00.030 --> 00:17:08.951
But it enables, it's a great enabler, the clinic, um, you know, lots of private clinics have set up and it's just, you know, helping those people that come directly to the clinic.

00:17:09.411 --> 00:17:20.691
But I don't want that because I'm driven by the injustice, the, um, it shouldn't be, I went into medicine so all people could get the same care and it's, it's not happening.

00:17:20.701 --> 00:17:24.191
There's so many disadvantaged groups and it's not.

00:17:24.300 --> 00:17:27.391
their fault that they're in these disadvantaged groups.

00:17:27.411 --> 00:17:33.661
And it's not for me as a clinician to judge and exclude those people in various disadvantaged groups.

00:17:34.060 --> 00:17:40.711
So I'm very fortunate that our clinics got so big that, you know, we can do things very differently.

00:17:40.730 --> 00:17:43.221
And we're actually now setting up a foundation.

00:17:43.221 --> 00:17:54.395
So a charitable foundation where a lot of this work can be done, which I think is going to be a game changer for people to really understand who I am and what I'm about, but what we can all do together.

00:17:54.465 --> 00:17:55.546
It's not me on my own.

00:17:55.976 --> 00:17:58.006
It's not even the team that I employ.

00:17:58.016 --> 00:18:02.895
It's others globally, men and women who want to make the difference.

00:18:02.895 --> 00:18:09.455
And I think that's the only way things are going to change because me as a lone voice is just being silenced all the time by.

00:18:09.865 --> 00:18:15.155
you know, other people that don't want me to be out of my box, but we work differently.

00:18:15.155 --> 00:18:23.076
Now we've got podcasts, you've got social media, we've got ways of connecting and women work in mysterious ways.

00:18:23.076 --> 00:18:23.746
And I love it.

00:18:25.486 --> 00:18:35.326
I'm just thinking as well, you know, this kind of This idea that we're all involved in this that it isn't just affecting women in there Let's I'm going to say 40s and 50s just as a generalization.

00:18:35.326 --> 00:18:51.596
I know it can affect people at various ages so This this group of women that's you know Almost becomes invisible because we talk a lot and our parents generation would have talked a lot about becoming invisible and you I can remember, I talk about my mum says, Oh, I didn't struggle with my menopause at all.

00:18:51.596 --> 00:18:52.826
And I'm thinking, are you sure mum?

00:18:53.375 --> 00:19:00.306
Because the other thing is it will land almost without fail at the time that you're, if you've got children, your teenagers are hitting puberty.

00:19:00.855 --> 00:19:05.375
So what you've then got is this kind of melting pot of hormones going on in a house.

00:19:05.625 --> 00:19:09.826
And I know that you've had your daughter and your mum on your podcast, haven't you, to talk about it?

00:19:09.915 --> 00:19:17.056
Because I think this is, I've got in my head this idea of going into schools and sort of, I said to my son, how would you feel if I came to your school and talked about menopause?

00:19:17.056 --> 00:19:17.935
And he looked absolutely horrified.

00:19:17.935 --> 00:19:19.625
So I probably wouldn't start there.

00:19:20.296 --> 00:19:27.076
But this idea of it being an intergenerational talk conversation, that you can say to your children, I'm not mad.

00:19:27.145 --> 00:19:28.296
My mum isn't mad.

00:19:28.326 --> 00:19:30.256
You know, it might seem like I am sometimes.

00:19:30.256 --> 00:19:39.351
And, you know, there were points last year when I didn't know who I was going to be when I put my feet on the floor in the morning, and it was utterly terrifying, and it must have had an impact on my kids.

00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:47.101
So I think by having this conversation with them and saying, you know, it's a hormonal fluctuation, and then, you know, you're going to get us hormones.

00:19:48.060 --> 00:19:56.280
But I'm thinking it has to become something that we talk about with our teenagers and with our husbands and with our friends, because Men are going to be affected by this.

00:19:56.641 --> 00:20:05.211
It's seen as very much a female problem, but if you live with a woman or you have a mother or a daughter, then you will, the likelihood is you're going to be impacted by this too.

00:20:05.211 --> 00:20:11.701
So I think this spreading the word and keeping the conversation going so often, it's, um, and I'm referring back to ADHD here.

00:20:11.721 --> 00:20:17.550
There's that, oh, you know, it wasn't a problem in my day and oh, you know, it's, you're all making a fuss, making excuses.

00:20:17.550 --> 00:20:25.895
And it's almost like it's been tarnished with that sort of same, um, I'm trying to think of the word here, sort of, Rhetoric.

00:20:26.105 --> 00:20:26.526
There we go.

00:20:26.746 --> 00:20:27.125
Found the word.

00:20:27.615 --> 00:20:28.175
Very good.

00:20:29.296 --> 00:20:29.655
Thank you.

00:20:32.115 --> 00:20:43.685
Yeah, and I think what you said before, you know, women are being labeled and we see a lot of women who have ADHD, which has either been diagnosed or it's got worse and the hormones are changing.

00:20:44.066 --> 00:20:48.226
So in medicine, you treat the underlying cause first and you don't always get it right.

00:20:48.286 --> 00:20:50.175
Often we give a treatment.

00:20:50.185 --> 00:20:52.615
If it doesn't work, we give another one or we try something else.

00:20:52.615 --> 00:20:54.175
We think of a different diagnosis.

00:20:54.596 --> 00:20:57.506
You know, when we treat people, it's very dynamic process.

00:20:57.536 --> 00:21:03.915
It's not a you know, one size fits all, you know, one stop, that's it, you'll get everything sorted.

00:21:05.056 --> 00:21:12.736
But actually, if you're just putting layers and layers and giving people different diagnosis and treating each thing in silo, you'll never reach the underlying cause.

00:21:13.125 --> 00:21:23.226
So if someone's got ADHD, for example, then, and it's got worse, but they're also telling me that their periods are changing and they're getting palpitations and they're getting other symptoms.

00:21:23.506 --> 00:21:25.455
Well, let's look at the thing that's connecting them.

00:21:25.465 --> 00:21:32.076
Not let's just not give them a moisturizer for their skin and antibiotics for their urinary tract infection and then ADHD drug.

00:21:32.586 --> 00:21:33.605
So I'll read that.

00:21:33.605 --> 00:21:36.266
I'll balance the hormones and then see what's left.

00:21:36.276 --> 00:21:36.945
If you like.

00:21:37.431 --> 00:21:42.340
And if they're still getting dry skin, of course, that's when I will think about, have they got eczema?

00:21:42.510 --> 00:21:44.080
Is there something else going on?

00:21:44.580 --> 00:21:54.701
But let's do the obvious things first, and that will help people have less medication, have less labels, have less suffering.

00:21:55.040 --> 00:22:01.935
It's very common sense medicine, but, and this is where the whole pharma conversation comes in, it's not expensive.

00:22:01.935 --> 00:22:03.766
It's very cheap to prescribe hormones.

00:22:04.865 --> 00:22:11.016
And there is this agenda that that's, you know, not what big pharma want.

00:22:11.050 --> 00:22:13.510
also, it is, it's body identical, isn't it?

00:22:13.540 --> 00:22:15.250
You and you are replacing hormones that you've lost.

00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:23.050
'cause I think this is the other thing, we, uh, as a society and understandably, we are becoming quite resistant to big pharma because I think we all feel we've been duped.

00:22:23.171 --> 00:22:26.941
And I know for me personally, and that's the only experience I can draw from, I.

00:22:27.280 --> 00:22:34.790
prescribes antidepressants, then I was prescribed ADHD meds, then I was prescribed anti anxiety medication to counter the effects of the ADHD meds.

00:22:35.461 --> 00:22:40.941
And suddenly you've got this row of medicines in the morning and you're taking one to counteract the other to counteract the other.

00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:45.240
And as I went on to HRT, and that's the other thing is, it's not a quick process, is it?

00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.111
You, it takes a while to get that balance right.

00:22:48.111 --> 00:22:50.040
And I've been having regular blood tests.

00:22:50.280 --> 00:22:51.330
In fact, I had one this week.

00:22:51.330 --> 00:22:56.925
So it's, and you can see this sort of, as the hormones start to balance out again, But it happens quite slowly.

00:22:57.066 --> 00:23:01.965
And as I said earlier, as a result, my, um, I much lower dose of antidepressant.

00:23:01.965 --> 00:23:05.086
I'd like to come off them at some point and much lower dose of ADHD meds.

00:23:05.615 --> 00:23:15.016
So what you've said there, I mean, obviously it's right, but it's you, you're addressing the underlying problem, which was the hormone imbalance, which then had a positive impact on everything else.

00:23:15.046 --> 00:23:35.935
So you, the reluctance to put things into your body, but actually it's, Again, it's that whitewashing of all, all medicine is evil, um, that we've, we've kind of, that's the message that we're, we're sort of, I'm sorry, I'm rambling a little bit, but I think that's the resistance, one of the resistance I'm seeing in my sort of cohort is, Oh, I don't want to take anything else.

00:23:35.945 --> 00:23:38.506
So I don't want to be dependent on medications, et

00:23:38.726 --> 00:23:44.826
I think, I think what's really interesting in this conversation is that actually hormones aren't medicine.

00:23:45.135 --> 00:23:46.205
They are natural hormones.

00:23:47.165 --> 00:23:53.385
They are biochemically exactly the same as the hormones we produce when we're younger.

00:23:53.885 --> 00:23:57.365
So they haven't been chemically modified like the contraceptives.

00:23:57.816 --> 00:23:58.296
have.

00:23:58.766 --> 00:24:05.855
We're very fortunate now, we didn't have these decades ago, but we've got these natural hormones that we can prescribe.

00:24:06.135 --> 00:24:10.675
So we're replacing like for like, which is very good, and it's a choice.

00:24:10.726 --> 00:24:19.836
Like I'm not here saying everyone has to take them, but I'm here saying everyone needs to know that you have a choice of having your natural hormones in a way that we didn't have before.

00:24:19.865 --> 00:24:24.076
So they're not actually drugs, they're not, they're not medicines.

00:24:24.191 --> 00:24:40.040
just because we prescribe them, but we prescribe insulin, you know, um, it's actually, we're very fortunate and they're safer than a lot of the so called natural supplements that you can buy over the counter.

00:24:40.901 --> 00:24:45.280
So it's sort of, people also then worry about the risks.

00:24:45.861 --> 00:24:46.901
How can our own hormones.

00:24:48.125 --> 00:24:48.596
be at risk.

00:24:48.645 --> 00:25:01.205
There's no evidence, and I can't find any evidence, and if anyone has, please challenge me, that pure estradiol, pure progesterone, and pure testosterone increase the risk of any cancer at all.

00:25:01.746 --> 00:25:06.806
Because in the history of All the papers and books I've read, I cannot find any evidence.

00:25:07.276 --> 00:25:12.276
I can find evidence that the older synthetic progestogens have a very small risk of breast cancer.

00:25:12.895 --> 00:25:21.010
I can find evidence that the older types of oestrogen that came from pregnant horse's urine had a very small increased risk of breast cancer.

00:25:21.115 --> 00:25:21.455
Gross.

00:25:21.701 --> 00:25:49.871
of the womb, but I can't find any evidence that our own natural hormones given to any woman at any age Increase risk of any cancer, but I can find evidence that they reduce risk of various cancers But they also reduce risk of heart disease and dementia, which are the common causes of death in women And there's plenty of evidence that we've had for decades, centuries in fact, that women who take a hormonal substance have better quality of life.

00:25:50.941 --> 00:25:52.911
And so it's what you want out of your life.

00:25:52.911 --> 00:25:57.730
But the other thing is, is looking differently and thinking, what are the risks of not having hormones?

00:25:58.851 --> 00:26:01.730
If you don't have hormones then there's more suffering for lots of us.

00:26:02.560 --> 00:26:06.560
But there's also, whether we have symptoms or not, there's an increased risk of diseases.

00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:13.711
Inflammatory diseases, including heart disease, dementia, osteoporosis, clinical depression, cancers, autoimmune diseases.

00:26:14.590 --> 00:26:19.201
These will increase without our hormones, because that's a fact, because our hormones reduce inflammation in our body.

00:26:20.006 --> 00:26:25.256
But we can reduce inflammation by eating well, by exercising, by not smoking, not drinking.

00:26:26.135 --> 00:26:30.096
So it's up to an individual what they do, but they have to know the facts.

00:26:30.145 --> 00:26:32.526
And the problem is we haven't been given all the facts.

00:26:32.526 --> 00:26:40.836
And even now we're not because people have their own agendas that they want to control women or they want to medicalize women in different ways.

00:26:40.935 --> 00:26:43.546
They don't want women to have the right knowledge or the right facts.

00:26:43.586 --> 00:26:46.171
Without the facts, anything in life.

00:26:46.181 --> 00:26:47.691
You can't make decisions.

00:26:48.191 --> 00:26:50.101
And that's where things are changing now.

00:26:50.171 --> 00:26:50.931
Yeah, of course it is.

00:26:50.931 --> 00:26:52.451
It's an absolute choice.

00:26:52.921 --> 00:26:56.740
But women have been suppressed for a long time.

00:26:56.750 --> 00:27:01.371
You know, I'm doing a lot of research in this area for the tour that I'm doing in the autumn.

00:27:01.840 --> 00:27:09.250
And some of the facts I'm going to be sharing with people will, hopefully, I will hear audible gasps in the audience because it's shocking.

00:27:09.921 --> 00:27:10.550
So there's

00:27:10.576 --> 00:27:11.566
see if I can get a ticket for this

00:27:11.800 --> 00:27:16.480
yeah, there is lots of information that is all factual.

00:27:16.546 --> 00:27:20.365
But it's, it's not been out there and it will be out there in the autumn when I talk about

00:27:20.605 --> 00:27:21.445
I can't wait.

00:27:21.615 --> 00:27:22.266
You'll have to come back on.

00:27:22.895 --> 00:27:23.355
Yeah.

00:27:23.746 --> 00:27:28.105
Now, you touched there about this, there is no link to an increased cancer risk.

00:27:28.175 --> 00:27:33.185
So what about if you have this hormonal, um, the BRCA, is it the BRCA gene?

00:27:33.236 --> 00:27:34.516
So you're more susceptible to

00:27:34.615 --> 00:27:34.826
Yeah.

00:27:34.826 --> 00:27:35.415
So if you've got

00:27:35.526 --> 00:27:36.336
that an exception?

00:27:36.496 --> 00:27:36.996
No, not at all.

00:27:37.006 --> 00:27:44.816
So if you've got brachygene, that means that you're more likely to have breast cancer because you've got this genetic change.

00:27:45.570 --> 00:27:52.471
But actually, women who take natural hormones, there's some studies that show they have a lower risk of breast cancer.

00:27:53.010 --> 00:28:05.111
Um, and so women who take HRT will have this risk because of their brachygene, but their risk will not increase by taking natural hormones and it might be that their risk might reduce.

00:28:05.760 --> 00:28:12.240
So women who've got oestrogen receptor positive breast cancer, the oncologist often try and avoid oestrogen.

00:28:12.800 --> 00:28:19.625
But actually, We can still consider testosterone, often consider progesterone as well.

00:28:20.145 --> 00:28:24.236
So we need to individualize care, which is what we do with everyone anyway.

00:28:24.576 --> 00:28:29.316
But just I see women who've had breast cancer 20 years ago, and I just told no to hormones.

00:28:29.776 --> 00:28:30.875
Well, it's not all hormones.

00:28:31.526 --> 00:28:33.215
And let's see what the benefits are.

00:28:33.215 --> 00:28:37.316
And a lot of women say, well, the breast cancer I had 20 years ago was very small.

00:28:37.766 --> 00:28:49.030
It was treated, I've been 20 years, cancer free, but I'm really worried because I've now been diagnosed with osteoporosis and my brother dropped out of a heart attack when he was my age.

00:28:49.260 --> 00:28:56.851
So let's give women a choice again and decide whether they want to consider hormones or not and, you know, finding the right balance for them.

00:28:58.201 --> 00:29:09.111
and actually all those kind of co morbidities of beta pores that you described, the increased risk of osteoporosis and heart disease, all of those things you'd need to take medication for, which would not be a natural hormone.

00:29:09.181 --> 00:29:15.461
So actually by not wanting to take the natural hormone, you probably increase your likelihood of having to have medical intervention later.

00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:22.316
And there's lots of things I, I mean, I'm just I'm going around in circles a bit here, but just you talked there about, um, like joints and things.

00:29:22.326 --> 00:29:27.476
So I was getting to a point where I was putting my feet on the floor and the heels of my feet hurt every morning.

00:29:27.486 --> 00:29:30.135
And I've got quite a lot of solid floors in my house.

00:29:30.145 --> 00:29:35.346
So I started wearing my crocs in the house or, you know, special orthopedic flip flops in the house.

00:29:35.375 --> 00:29:36.655
And it just wasn't getting any better.

00:29:37.655 --> 00:29:44.546
And then I went on HRT and got the testosterone levels, um, a little high and it's sometimes I ache a bit, but it's those things that we just hate.

00:29:44.681 --> 00:29:49.540
We assume that's just natural signs of aging, that we're gonna creak a bit when we get up that we're gonna gain weight.

00:29:49.540 --> 00:29:54.040
And I sort of have skirted around the weight issue because I'm in recovery for eating disorders myself.

00:29:54.040 --> 00:29:56.980
So I very much try not to focus in on, on weight loss.

00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:09.310
Um, which in this modern world is, is pretty difficult, but weight gain around menopause, that's something else that we've been told to just accept that we're gonna get the podge meno belly and there's nothing you can do about it.

00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:10.871
And actually that's not true, is it?

00:30:11.576 --> 00:30:13.306
No, so our body needs oestrogen.

00:30:13.375 --> 00:30:15.496
It's a really important biologically active hormone.

00:30:16.215 --> 00:30:23.056
But if we don't produce enough from our ovaries and, and our other organs, our body tries to compensate.

00:30:23.066 --> 00:30:30.266
You know, our bodies are really clever, but one of the ways it can produce oestrogen is from fat cells, but it's a weak type of oestrogen called oestrone.

00:30:30.276 --> 00:30:31.705
So it doesn't work in the same way.

00:30:31.715 --> 00:30:38.905
It's actually quite pro inflammatory, but it's best that the body can do so it produces more fat, including in the midline.

00:30:39.391 --> 00:30:43.030
Um, and, um, that's why a lot of people put on weight.

00:30:43.050 --> 00:30:48.381
There's also metabolic changes with the way we metabolize sugar when we don't have oestrogen in our body.

00:30:48.711 --> 00:30:52.567
But often people find when they have natural hormones back, their weight changes.

00:30:52.935 --> 00:30:53.526
improves.

00:30:53.566 --> 00:30:57.486
And I remember eight years ago, my mom coming and she's going, Oh, you're putting on a bit of weight.

00:30:58.046 --> 00:30:58.715
Oh, shut up, mother.

00:30:58.726 --> 00:30:59.365
I know I am.

00:30:59.375 --> 00:30:59.865
Cause when I put

00:30:59.990 --> 00:31:00.411
Thanks mom.

00:31:01.006 --> 00:31:03.195
it's always, when you sit down, you've got the seat belt across you.

00:31:03.195 --> 00:31:06.482
You look down and you think, Oh God, it's just

00:31:06.806 --> 00:31:07.115
can't breathe.

00:31:07.265 --> 00:31:13.965
but I also had stopped doing yoga because my joints like you was really stiff and I felt like a.

00:31:14.726 --> 00:31:18.016
Tin, like the Tin Man from, you know, The Wizard of Oz.

00:31:18.016 --> 00:31:32.425
I just, like when you do good yoga practice, you're flowing and it's lovely and you're just, and I couldn't, I felt like just some stiff middle aged, which is what I am, I suppose, woman, that just couldn't, and I just, I couldn't have the energy, I just, I can't be bothered.

00:31:32.965 --> 00:31:36.435
Whereas now, even this morning, I thought, oh, I can't be bothered to do yoga, I'm gonna have, nope.

00:31:36.891 --> 00:31:42.310
And I've just done 20 minutes, you know, but 20 minutes yoga ending in a headstand is a great way to start the day.

00:31:42.830 --> 00:31:44.421
But I would never have even done

00:31:44.486 --> 00:31:45.135
well, Louise.

00:31:45.730 --> 00:31:46.921
you know, so

00:31:47.905 --> 00:31:52.246
But I did it when I started up and I, because I was running and you know, my hips were hurting.

00:31:52.296 --> 00:31:57.756
And I mean, I'm not, I'm not a natural athlete anyway, but I was doing it all if I'm honest with the, you know, the mindset of I need to lose weight.

00:31:57.806 --> 00:32:00.875
And it was, I discovered yoga about a year, year and a half ago.

00:32:01.336 --> 00:32:02.145
And, um, it's.

00:32:02.266 --> 00:32:03.655
It's transformed my life.

00:32:03.695 --> 00:32:04.355
But same as you.

00:32:04.355 --> 00:32:10.776
I was finding that I was my back was just creaking and I was having pain injections at one point because my back was aching so much.

00:32:11.125 --> 00:32:13.796
So it was having a very real impact on my life.

00:32:13.796 --> 00:32:23.580
And I'm still fairly young and you use the term middle age then and that's Kind of uses a derogatory term, but actually if you break it down, middle age, it means we're halfway through.

00:32:23.601 --> 00:32:26.191
Like I still got, I hope I've got another 40 to go.

00:32:26.820 --> 00:32:33.661
And I know that the best way of me securing a comfortable old age is by being active, eating, you know, well, most of the time.

00:32:33.661 --> 00:32:42.681
I'm prone to devouring 30 minutes on the odd occasion, like everybody else, but moving, I've gone full ice baths and meditation and everything.

00:32:42.681 --> 00:32:48.290
Because I think you, you realize at this point in your life that in order to have the best.

00:32:48.506 --> 00:32:49.596
Next part of your life.

00:32:49.635 --> 00:32:51.016
You've got to take action now.

00:32:51.455 --> 00:32:54.355
And I was like many women of a certain age.

00:32:54.355 --> 00:32:55.935
I was a heavy drinker and I stopped drinking.

00:32:55.935 --> 00:32:58.986
And I think that also made me more aware of what's going on in my body.

00:32:59.026 --> 00:33:01.925
Because when you're drinking a lot, you miss so much.

00:33:01.976 --> 00:33:08.336
And I think that's also happening in my peer group is that we're sort of moving away from the party lifestyle because, well, we're getting old.

00:33:11.645 --> 00:33:15.036
Um, I just also quickly while I've got you here.

00:33:16.050 --> 00:33:18.161
It was, I'm just going to quickly go back into my list.

00:33:18.300 --> 00:33:19.280
Bear with me one second.

00:33:19.730 --> 00:33:29.030
Now, you did touch earlier in the conversation, and I don't know if you're happy to talk about it, but I'll ask you and I can always edit it out, but you talked about losing your, your dad when you were nine.

00:33:29.560 --> 00:33:40.121
Now that is, it's not on topic particularly, but it is a really special interest of mine because my, my husband and my, my children's dad died and my children were, um, seven, five and six months.

00:33:40.881 --> 00:33:49.040
So your mum, She presumably went through menopause on her own in a world that really wasn't geared up to support with the widows.

00:33:49.040 --> 00:33:51.300
I mean, it isn't now, if I'm honest, that's why I do what I do.

00:33:52.181 --> 00:33:59.300
Um, and I just, I guess I just wanted to, while I had you, just ask you about the impact that would have had on, A, your mum at the time.

00:33:59.300 --> 00:34:02.465
And also, you know, one of the things I try and do in my career.

00:34:02.605 --> 00:34:07.615
My work is to show people that you will be okay and that your children will probably be okay.

00:34:08.085 --> 00:34:16.215
And I think seeing the success that you've made of your life, despite having had a huge tragedy at nine is quite a positive message.

00:34:16.215 --> 00:34:18.606
So if you're happy to, and you don't mind going off

00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:19.840
to talk about it.

00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:28.661
I mean, I'm not happy that my dad died, of course, but, um, and I think about him every day, but yeah, he died when I was nine and he had a brain tumour.

00:34:29.260 --> 00:34:35.621
He died in 1979 and he'd had this brain tumour when I, I think it was first diagnosed when I was about three or four, but no one told me.

00:34:36.170 --> 00:34:38.300
And, um, and then he became.

00:34:38.721 --> 00:34:52.630
ill and was in hospital and unusually that my mum lived with him in the hospital in London, which, you know, people now stay overnight, but they didn't then, but she's quite persistent person and spent his last days of his life with, with together.

00:34:53.030 --> 00:34:54.530
My grandparents looked after us.

00:34:55.041 --> 00:34:56.760
But no one prepared me for his death.

00:34:56.860 --> 00:35:05.311
And I'm telling you that because I was really cross, like when she came and told us he died, my sister fell apart and I was just, I'm too angry.

00:35:05.331 --> 00:35:07.411
Why didn't you even warn me that he could be dying?

00:35:07.420 --> 00:35:09.311
I thought you were coming home because he was better.

00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:11.851
And that crossness has stayed with me.

00:35:11.851 --> 00:35:16.371
And I think that's probably one of the reasons that I want to educate people so much.

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.931
because I don't want them to be in the dark like I was as a very young child.

00:35:21.420 --> 00:35:24.771
Um, but I then I was sent off to a boarding school.

00:35:24.771 --> 00:35:25.771
My mom had no money.

00:35:25.771 --> 00:35:29.371
My husband, my husband, my father didn't Didn't leave money.

00:35:29.380 --> 00:35:30.891
So he was a freemason.

00:35:30.891 --> 00:36:06.166
I don't still know really what they do But it was a masonic school that was paid for by the freemasons And it was all people like me who had lost a father and were lumped into this dark Terribly, terribly strict boarding school, and it was awful, and I, I wanted to get out of it because I wanted to read medicine and it wasn't academic, so I worked really hard, I'm quite motivated, and, um, I knew I had to go somewhere else for sixth form, otherwise I'd never get into university, let alone do medicine, um, and I managed to get a scholarship to a school for sixth form, but I got bullied a lot at school.

00:36:06.976 --> 00:36:10.356
made fun of for working so hard and always getting really high marks.

00:36:10.996 --> 00:36:13.315
But that's good because it makes you really tough.

00:36:13.576 --> 00:36:21.215
And I think in so much in life, even more now, because women are not believed, it's always about where you've had trauma in your life.

00:36:21.235 --> 00:36:22.686
You've had something going on.

00:36:23.206 --> 00:36:24.596
You're a complicated person.

00:36:24.596 --> 00:36:35.576
Would you know what my trauma has made me really tough, but it's also made me really independent and also not very trustworthy of people because people can be really cruel and selfish.

00:36:36.005 --> 00:36:45.826
So it's actually been a good thing because I think if my father had stayed living, I was in such a happy place with such a close family that I would have been more protected.

00:36:45.826 --> 00:36:47.436
I would have been more spoiled.

00:36:47.686 --> 00:36:54.056
He probably had good earning potential and I would have financially been more, um, you know, Secure.

00:36:54.175 --> 00:36:57.206
Everything I do now is because I've earned the money.

00:36:57.246 --> 00:36:58.856
I've never had external funding.

00:36:59.485 --> 00:37:02.706
But the other thing is, is that my mother had three children like you.

00:37:02.735 --> 00:37:04.525
They were 12, 9 and 2.

00:37:05.356 --> 00:37:09.135
Um, my father died three days after my, my brother's second birthday.

00:37:09.666 --> 00:37:10.786
My mom had to get a job.

00:37:10.835 --> 00:37:18.255
She worked as a teacher and, um, she freelanced initially, which she sat in the wrong person's chair in the staff room.

00:37:18.255 --> 00:37:28.295
And she was scowled at because she wore a short sleeve top, which you shouldn't wear in the seventies, you know, But then she started to like feel rubbish teaching and get occasional hot sweats.

00:37:28.766 --> 00:37:34.465
And she went to the doctor and she said, they luckily, and the first doctor actually said it's the change.

00:37:34.476 --> 00:37:41.525
She had no idea what the change was, but gave her some Dixirid, which is some non hormone, it's clonidine, it's a rubbish drug, not hormonal.

00:37:42.536 --> 00:37:44.916
And it made her feel dreadful, made her feel a bit dizzy.

00:37:44.925 --> 00:37:47.315
So she went back, luckily.

00:37:47.806 --> 00:37:54.735
And the second doctor said, Oh, you just need some of this Premarin, which is the pregnant horse's urine, HRT, because that's all it was then.

00:37:55.045 --> 00:37:57.335
But she said, Louise, within days I felt better.

00:37:57.945 --> 00:37:58.335
Yeah.

00:37:58.596 --> 00:37:59.876
You didn't, you didn't ask questions.

00:37:59.876 --> 00:38:01.436
You just took whatever you were given.

00:38:01.465 --> 00:38:04.085
She took this medicine and felt better.

00:38:04.135 --> 00:38:07.025
And without HRT, she would not have worked.

00:38:07.065 --> 00:38:09.536
And I can't tell you how old she is, but I'm.

00:38:09.791 --> 00:38:10.891
54 on Sunday.

00:38:10.891 --> 00:38:12.911
So you can sort of work out how old she is.

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.010
She's only just retired.

00:38:15.061 --> 00:38:24.900
She's been working as a lambda examiner for 41 years and she definitely would not have been doing that without hormones.

00:38:25.141 --> 00:38:26.291
So she was very lucky.

00:38:26.291 --> 00:38:32.521
So her experience was good, but it would have been very different if she'd not seen that second doctor.

00:38:33.746 --> 00:38:36.206
Well, I just wrote down as you were talking, I wrote the word tenacious.

00:38:36.425 --> 00:38:48.416
Um, I mean, you know, it obviously runs down the line here, but you can, but without her going back to the doctor, because so many women would have A, possibly not even gone to the doctor, then tried the medicine.

00:38:48.425 --> 00:38:49.036
It doesn't work.

00:38:49.036 --> 00:38:50.545
It would get put in the back of a cupboard.

00:38:50.826 --> 00:38:52.246
I tried it, it didn't work for me.

00:38:52.726 --> 00:38:58.822
But then for her to go back again and keep pushing, that's quite, that's why I've written the word tenacious.

00:38:58.822 --> 00:39:10.865
Um, and I guess for you to see your mum pull herself through, you know, what I can tell you from experience is the most traumatic thing you can imagine, you know, second only, I guess, to losing a child.

00:39:11.385 --> 00:39:20.851
Um, and then, to seek out support, to get herself correctly diagnosed, to get the treatment and, and to go on and kind of show you what, what can be achieved.

00:39:21.811 --> 00:39:25.981
And then you're then, you know, doing that in order to show your children.

00:39:26.021 --> 00:39:29.380
And I think it's such an important message that we as women pass down.

00:39:29.380 --> 00:39:31.340
And I don't even think it has to be in paid work.

00:39:31.340 --> 00:39:32.960
I don't want to shame people that make the choice to be home.

00:39:32.990 --> 00:39:34.710
I made that choice for a long time.

00:39:35.201 --> 00:39:39.731
It's about, um, showing that you have a voice and that you sometimes, you know, sometimes we'll.

00:39:40.130 --> 00:39:42.791
Um, even if you go to a hotel and it's really a bit crap, right?

00:39:43.090 --> 00:39:45.471
And I just say to the kids, I'm really sorry, but I'm going to have to go.

00:39:45.541 --> 00:39:46.231
I'm going to have to go.

00:39:46.231 --> 00:39:50.271
And you're just showing them that you, you can speak up for yourselves in circumstance.

00:39:50.271 --> 00:39:55.380
And I just think that's a really, really important message that we show not only our daughters, but our sons as well.

00:39:56.641 --> 00:39:57.170
totally.

00:39:57.391 --> 00:40:12.820
So just sort of while I've still got you Louise, I thought it might be worth just a quick recap of um, avenues that women who suspect they might be perimenopausal or even, and again, men who live with women who they think might be perimenopausal, but sometimes we're not that receptive to being told it's our hormones, right?

00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:22.971
Um, and things that they, they can do and I'm thinking your app, which is free, so that's a really brilliant resource because I know one of the key things that you, um, recommend is that you, it's knowledge.

00:40:23.335 --> 00:40:26.045
So track your cycles, track your hormones, track the way you feel.

00:40:26.596 --> 00:40:27.835
I'm a bit chaotic.

00:40:27.835 --> 00:40:31.666
So I've got just a notes in my phone and it's, um, what do I call it?

00:40:31.666 --> 00:40:32.465
Like dragon day.

00:40:32.505 --> 00:40:35.865
And I just put in the dates and then I gradually began to see that, Oh, okay.

00:40:35.865 --> 00:40:37.335
Maybe it is hormones as a correlation.

00:40:37.335 --> 00:40:47.056
Maybe I'm not mad because actually that that's one thing I did want to mention as well is the speed in which doctors will diagnose things like BPD or clinical depression.

00:40:47.115 --> 00:40:54.115
Um, those labels are really quite, um, And if that is a diagnosis that you need, then that's great.

00:40:54.166 --> 00:40:57.735
But often it isn't, and we're left thinking we're losing our minds.

00:40:57.735 --> 00:41:00.576
We're mad I've got a permanent diagnosis of something.

00:41:01.246 --> 00:41:13.815
Um, and so often, actually, it is these hideous hormonal fluctuations leading you to behave erratically, leading you to be forgetful, leading you to kind of mimic all these symptoms of really quite serious mental health disorders.

00:41:14.365 --> 00:41:23.326
Um, So yeah, sorry, again, off on a tangent, but I think it's a really, the key things would be to track your, track your cycle, track your mood swings, really get a handle on what's going on.

00:41:23.795 --> 00:41:26.126
And then would you advise approaching the NHS?

00:41:26.126 --> 00:41:26.806
Do you think it's

00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:27.550
Yeah, for sure.

00:41:27.581 --> 00:41:39.411
I think, I think also, you know, with other people, whether it's, whether it's children or relatives or work colleagues, friends, it doesn't really matter, get them to try and monitor as well, because when you're day to day, you don't always see the changes.

00:41:39.811 --> 00:41:47.351
Um, and I think it is important for everybody to know and recognize and say, Oh, are you feeling like this?

00:41:47.485 --> 00:41:50.146
Because of your hormones, or is there something else going on?

00:41:50.385 --> 00:41:56.266
Because you don't want to miss there's something else going on, of course, if you're that person who's witnessing some changes.

00:41:56.706 --> 00:42:04.936
And that's where, you know, the app, listening to some podcasts, reading my book, just allowing others to have knowledge is really, really important.

00:42:05.335 --> 00:42:14.115
But absolutely, if anyone is having any symptoms that could be related, and even if they're on hormones, but they're still getting a dip, before periods, you need to speak to someone.

00:42:14.115 --> 00:42:21.476
And it might be like my mother had more than one person till you get the right help, but explain that you've got the knowledge.

00:42:21.815 --> 00:42:23.275
You think it's related to hormones.

00:42:23.275 --> 00:42:26.195
You would like hormones and you would like the right balance of hormones.

00:42:26.195 --> 00:42:27.965
And it might be that you can only get.

00:42:28.445 --> 00:42:32.936
estrogen and progesterone from your NHS GP and you might have to go privately.

00:42:32.936 --> 00:42:38.635
A lot of women come to our clinic and we do this testosterone quick start consultation, so it's cheaper.

00:42:38.976 --> 00:42:45.175
They're on HRT, they get on to testosterone, they come back for a review and then often the doctors will carry on and prescribe it.

00:42:45.710 --> 00:42:48.411
So a lot of people only come to our clinic once or twice.

00:42:48.431 --> 00:42:52.210
They're not tied in, if you see what I mean, because it's obviously a big financial commitment.

00:42:52.601 --> 00:42:56.871
And we work very closely with GPs who will then carry on prescribing.

00:42:56.871 --> 00:43:01.121
So, um, it's definitely keep talking to someone until you've been heard.

00:43:01.121 --> 00:43:07.315
And if you feel you're not offered the right treatment or the right advice, you are allowed to see someone else in the NHS.

00:43:07.565 --> 00:43:08.666
That's absolutely fine.

00:43:09.065 --> 00:43:14.596
But you know, take someone with you and you know, help them, let them help be an advocate for you.

00:43:14.606 --> 00:43:22.365
So you get what you need because most of us, hopefully, I don't know how long I'm going to live for, will be menopausal for a few decades.

00:43:22.706 --> 00:43:25.715
So it's not just something that you need to get over for a week or two.

00:43:25.726 --> 00:43:29.195
It's really important that you're investing in your future health.

00:43:29.215 --> 00:43:32.806
So you're getting the right treatment that you, need and deserve really.

00:43:34.820 --> 00:43:35.990
Yeah, I agree.

00:43:35.990 --> 00:43:37.670
And actually somebody else said that to me.

00:43:37.670 --> 00:43:40.601
She said, does your husband go with you to your um, menopause appointments?

00:43:40.721 --> 00:43:41.610
That's what they've done on zoom.

00:43:41.710 --> 00:43:48.601
And no, um, and he, and they, they said, Oh, you should get them to sit in on them because I thought, Oh, you, I'd never thought to do that.

00:43:48.601 --> 00:43:57.440
But actually what is, what we're going through when we go through perimenopause impacts on our family, our friends, our, our careers impacts on, it ricochets out.

00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:03.231
And the more people that you've got your team, In your corner on your team is actually better and the more they understand as well.

00:44:03.530 --> 00:44:06.891
'cause it must be quite scary living with somebody who's perimenopause actually.

00:44:07.010 --> 00:44:17.061
And that's one, that's why I, I believe in, in the, having the conversation because you know, I can still remember my mom kind of into the bedroom and just this kind of blind rage, I'm thinking, oh my God, what have I done?

00:44:17.510 --> 00:44:20.931
And of course I look back now and I realize that she was in perimenopause.

00:44:21.655 --> 00:44:21.996
Yeah.

00:44:22.556 --> 00:44:25.076
And no one's too old to consider hormones as well.

00:44:25.085 --> 00:44:27.635
And I think that's, what's really important for people to realize.

00:44:27.646 --> 00:44:31.456
So, you know, a lot of people talk about being through the menopause.

00:44:31.715 --> 00:44:35.076
No one's through it unless they're dead because you've always got low hormones.

00:44:35.405 --> 00:44:40.476
And increasingly we see women who, who still have symptoms, all they want to take it to help.

00:44:40.621 --> 00:44:42.940
strengthen their bones, for example, and that's fine.

00:44:44.795 --> 00:44:52.976
That's really fascinating it and actually what just kind of tail that this you recommend that you start taking Hormones really the sooner the better

00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:53.791
Yes.

00:44:54.005 --> 00:45:05.590
So what at what point would be I know this is a bit of a vague question, but At what point does PMDD or PMT or PMS become perimetopause and at what point can you start

00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:11.201
But you can start hormones when you've got PMS and PMDD, so it doesn't matter, actually.

00:45:11.561 --> 00:45:21.041
A lot of people, ideally, would top up their hormones on those days they're having symptoms if they have PMS and PMDD, and then they'll take them for longer as their own hormones decline.

00:45:21.061 --> 00:45:26.791
So you sort of segue through all these hormonal changes, hopefully without having too many symptoms.

00:45:27.190 --> 00:45:30.661
So that's why the earlier you take it, there's less suffering as well.

00:45:32.231 --> 00:45:33.791
And would this be a similar concept?

00:45:33.791 --> 00:45:35.811
Sorry, I'd said we were going to finish and now I've got loads more questions.

00:45:36.150 --> 00:45:44.260
Is this a similar concept to giving, so I was put on the contraceptive pill quite young, um, the mini pill because I had incredibly heavy, painful periods.

00:45:44.606 --> 00:45:46.956
Incredibly dramatic mood swings.

00:45:47.416 --> 00:45:53.335
I mean, I was, I was in a psychiatric institution at 17 because nobody knew what to do with me.

00:45:53.686 --> 00:45:56.885
And I do look back and wonder how much of it was to do with hormones.

00:45:58.246 --> 00:45:58.775
Absolutely.

00:45:59.115 --> 00:46:01.255
Um, it's so sad, isn't it?

00:46:01.266 --> 00:46:08.356
There are still people, I've got patients who are in psychiatric hospitals, who are now improving with hormones.

00:46:08.425 --> 00:46:12.385
And it's, that's why I don't want to be talking about perimenopause menopause.

00:46:12.385 --> 00:46:14.365
I want to be talking about a hormonal problem.

00:46:15.295 --> 00:46:22.715
And if we just talk about hormones, you as a 17 year old, or you as an 87 year old, have a hormonal problem that needs treatment.

00:46:23.286 --> 00:46:24.376
And that's the problem.

00:46:24.385 --> 00:46:28.126
Once you're locked into psychiatrists, they don't think about hormones.

00:46:28.496 --> 00:46:30.635
And you might've had a psychiatric condition as well.

00:46:30.646 --> 00:46:37.036
In medicine, you can have more than one diagnosis, but you can't exclude hormones because they get everywhere, including in our brains.

00:46:37.295 --> 00:46:46.186
And actually, hormone fluctuations in neurodivergent women do tend to be much stronger and more dramatic as in, as far as I can discern from my, my limited internet research.

00:46:46.606 --> 00:47:02.405
Um, and so it would make sense that you could, you know, if you put together that kind of melting pot of undiagnosed autism and ADHD with, um, a massive hormonal surge, you know, it doesn't, you know, it kind of makes sense that this is going to result in an explosion or a breakdown.

00:47:03.630 --> 00:47:12.331
And I guess it's, I feel for me personally, it makes me feel like I've not lost my mind, you know, that this is a hormonal fluctuation.

00:47:12.681 --> 00:47:19.380
And I'm able, if I wake up and I feel like that, you know, the snake, I call it the snake is in me, you know, that kind of, you know, lashing.

00:47:19.851 --> 00:47:27.396
And I'm, I am, It's not perfect, none of us are, but I am able to say to myself, this is, this is your week.

00:47:27.465 --> 00:47:33.565
This is the week where you're, you know, this happens and try and give myself a little bit compassion because actually this is hard.

00:47:33.596 --> 00:47:35.255
Navigating midlife is hard anyway.

00:47:35.266 --> 00:47:36.215
Being a parent is hard.

00:47:36.226 --> 00:47:37.226
Having a job is hard.

00:47:37.596 --> 00:47:42.045
And then you throw in this, uh, the idea that you're going to wake up in the morning and not know who you are.

00:47:42.925 --> 00:47:44.376
Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough.

00:47:44.416 --> 00:47:44.985
It is tough.

00:47:45.025 --> 00:47:55.650
And I'm so glad that there is information and there are people like you out there trying to, you know, educate and inform us so that we don't feel like we're losing our minds and we don't pull apart our families because we suddenly hate everybody.

00:47:56.181 --> 00:48:01.030
Um, and because the rates of divorce are like astronomical, aren't they, with women in their mid 40s.

00:48:01.110 --> 00:48:02.311
It's, uh, it's insane.

00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:07.641
And actually, I, I will just touch on the sort of the darker side of this, which is suicide.

00:48:08.170 --> 00:48:13.590
Um, and in your book, you do speak to a man who's, who's, who lost his wife to suicide as a result of perimenopause.

00:48:14.650 --> 00:48:17.820
And it, it doesn't surprise me.

00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:33.150
It scares me and it saddens me, but it doesn't surprise me, because I Even, you know, people are starting to talk more about the darkness and the ideation because previously you didn't, you didn't want to upset people, but I think the dialogue has changed.

00:48:33.710 --> 00:48:45.070
But the amount of people I know that are so low and so anxious and so frightened and it, just to know that it, this, this kind of indiscrepancy in care.

00:48:45.690 --> 00:48:47.271
It's basically what could be causing it.

00:48:47.911 --> 00:48:50.490
Sorry, that was, I went off on a little speech there.

00:48:50.490 --> 00:48:51.740
I got on my soapbox.

00:48:52.335 --> 00:49:00.976
we have to, we have to remember that suicide rates increase in women in the perimenopause by a factor of seven and it's been neglected far too much.

00:49:01.005 --> 00:49:02.266
So it's real, it's

00:49:02.291 --> 00:49:03.271
It's the biggest killer, isn't

00:49:03.306 --> 00:49:03.945
it's happening.

00:49:04.525 --> 00:49:11.666
It's in various age groups, yes, and postnatal depression can cause suicide as well, which again is a big hormonal shift.

00:49:11.706 --> 00:49:16.195
So, yeah, there's lots we need to do, that's for sure, to improve futures.

00:49:16.291 --> 00:49:16.731
is.

00:49:18.530 --> 00:49:21.960
Well, Louise, thank you so much for coming on to talk to me today.

00:49:22.010 --> 00:49:23.911
I have made, as always, copious notes.

00:49:23.951 --> 00:49:31.380
And for anybody listening, I'm not saying this just because Louise is sat in front of me, but the book, The definitive guide to the perimetopause and metopause.

00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:36.130
You can see I've got, I've annotated it, posted, noted it, and covered it in pen.

00:49:36.201 --> 00:49:39.041
So I really, really recommend it, and also Louise's balance app.

00:49:39.130 --> 00:49:41.400
And I will be looking to get tickets to your tour in autumn.

00:49:41.936 --> 00:49:42.356
Great.

00:49:42.445 --> 00:49:46.255
Let me know when you come and I'll say hello, but thank you so much for having me today.

00:49:46.255 --> 00:49:46.936
It's been great.

00:49:48.210 --> 00:49:48.951
Thanks so much.

00:49:48.981 --> 00:49:53.346
And to everybody out there, if you are going through these, This kind of scary turbulent times.

00:49:53.346 --> 00:49:58.775
You, you aren't alone and my inbox is open and I'm sure that Louise would be willing to answer any questions you have as well at some point.

00:49:59.106 --> 00:50:01.916
So thank you for listening and take care of yourselves out there.

00:50:02.045 --> 00:50:02.476
Goodbye.