Feb. 14, 2025

S1 - EP11. - Raising Confident Girls & Navigating Puberty, with Kim McCabe of Rites for Girls

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S1 - EP11. - Raising Confident Girls & Navigating Puberty, with Kim McCabe of Rites for Girls
S1 - EP11. - Raising Confident Girls & Navigating Puberty, with Kim McCabe of Rites for Girls
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Season 1

In this episode, I had the opportunity to chat with Kim McCabe, founder of Rights for Girls, an organization focused on empowering young girls through community support and education. Kim shared her personal experiences of navigating a challenging teenage life and the lessons she learned along the way.

We discussed the importance of creating safe spaces for girls, especially during puberty, a time filled with emotional and physical changes. Kim emphasized how vital it is for girls to have a supportive network where they can express themselves authentically, particularly in the face of social media pressures that can negatively impact body image and mental health.

Kim also provided practical strategies for parents and caregivers to foster open communication with their daughters. From encouraging participation in community groups to creating opportunities for one-on-one bonding, her insights are both heartfelt and actionable.

This episode is essential for anyone looking to understand the challenges young girls face and how we can contribute to their empowerment and well-being. Join us as we explore this important conversation about nurturing the next generation of strong, confident women.

Key Topics 

Puberty & Body Changes

  • How to talk about periods, hormones, and body image without shame
  • Practical ways to help kids understand what’s happening in their bodies

Fostering Father-Daughter Bonds

  • Why dads play a crucial role when girls hit puberty
  • Tips for keeping channels of communication open

Self-Care for Parents

  • Recognizing signs of stress or burnout
  • Strategies for recharging so you can be more present for your kids

Screen Time & Boundaries

  • Ideas to help teens use devices responsibly
  • Modeling healthy online behavior for the whole family

Neurodiversity & Early Puberty

  • Supporting children with autism, ADHD, or other conditions
  • Managing sensory overload and emotional regulation

Whether you’re new to parenting teens or simply looking for fresh ideas to support a girl in your life, Kim’s perspective is both practical and reassuring. With an emphasis on compassion and prevention, she shares how creating modern “rites of passage” can set young people up for happier, more confident futures.

About Kim McCabe

Kim McCabe is a child psychologist, author of From Daughter to Woman, and founder of Rites for Girls. Through group programs, online mentoring, and in-person workshops, she helps girls and their parents navigate the challenges of adolescence with confidence, empathy, and connection.

Helpful Links

 


Connect with the show
Web : https://www.chatty-af.com/
Instagram : @chatty_af_podcast and @rosie_gill_moss

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Disclaimers: The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. The experiences and opinions expressed by the guest are personal and should not be taken as general advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional support for similar issues. The producers and host are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information provided in this episode.

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction & Welcome

02:00 - Kim’s Journey & Founding Rites for Girls

08:30 - One-on-One Time & Building Connection

14:00 - The Father-Daughter Dynamic

18:30 - Puberty & Periods: Talking Without Shame

23:00 - Setting Boundaries & Screen Time

29:00 - Neurodiversity & Early Puberty

35:45 - Celebrating Milestones: Rites of Passage

40:30 - Parent Self-Care & Final Tips

47:00 - Wrap-Up & Resources

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.536 --> 00:00:03.516
Welcome, Kim.

00:00:03.576 --> 00:00:05.285
Thank you so much for coming on today.

00:00:05.285 --> 00:00:07.336
It's an absolute pleasure to talk to you.

00:00:08.125 --> 00:00:15.215
Would you start just by introducing yourself, telling me a little bit about who you are and how you came to set up Brights for Girls?

00:00:17.536 --> 00:00:19.265
It's a pleasure to be here, Rosie.

00:00:19.265 --> 00:00:20.675
Thank you for inviting me.

00:00:21.185 --> 00:00:35.526
Um, yes, my name is Kim McCabe and I am the founder director of Rights for Girls, where we train women to run girls groups, um, a girls group in person, or we also have an online program.

00:00:36.106 --> 00:00:37.185
How did I start?

00:00:37.915 --> 00:00:38.536
Oh my goodness.

00:00:38.536 --> 00:00:40.685
Well, I suppose I didn't have a very good.

00:00:41.185 --> 00:00:43.015
Teenage experience myself.

00:00:43.026 --> 00:00:48.915
So I found myself taking the best part of my twenties and thirties to recover from being a teenage girl.

00:00:49.396 --> 00:00:50.435
Um, I did.

00:00:51.276 --> 00:00:51.856
Yeah.

00:00:53.595 --> 00:00:54.365
Well, do you know what?

00:00:54.365 --> 00:00:56.216
I think it's a lifelong project, isn't it?

00:00:56.576 --> 00:01:05.596
Um, but I did study child psychology and psychology and women's studies at Cambridge university and went on to train as a counselor for distressed teenagers.

00:01:06.046 --> 00:01:09.236
But all of that really made me think, what can we do?

00:01:09.551 --> 00:01:10.760
To work preventatively.

00:01:10.771 --> 00:01:20.161
What do the, what do our girls need from us as their parents or their teachers or their carers or, or as just being an auntie or somebody in their life?

00:01:20.161 --> 00:01:25.400
What do they need from us women to grow up strong and safe and feeling well supported?

00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:30.441
Um, it wasn't easy for me, but that was 50 years ago.

00:01:30.471 --> 00:01:31.051
Oh my goodness.

00:01:31.051 --> 00:01:31.331
Yes.

00:01:31.581 --> 00:01:33.960
Um, and I think it's harder for girls now.

00:01:34.555 --> 00:01:36.506
Yeah, I, I absolutely agree.

00:01:36.536 --> 00:01:40.805
Much like you, I, I did not have a pleasant teenager, teenagerhood.

00:01:40.846 --> 00:01:42.355
I, I was very troubled.

00:01:42.406 --> 00:01:46.516
I suffered hugely, and my mental health was really, really bad.

00:01:46.575 --> 00:01:48.436
And my mum and dad were fantastic.

00:01:48.465 --> 00:01:53.930
My mum is a real powerhouse of a woman, and she fought and she fought and she fought to get me support and care.

00:01:55.051 --> 00:02:25.600
I am Nora De Verdu, and I wasn't picked up until I was 40, and I now think that a lot of that contributed to that particularly turbulent time, but there's no denying that, that massive drop of hormones, things like social media now, you know, when we got home, sometimes you'd have a friend ring you and be mean to you, but, you know, it was, it was, Far less insidious than the access to devices and screens and I have now and in social media, you know, this body image stuff You know, I'm I worry so much for my daughters and I've got two girls.

00:02:25.600 --> 00:03:04.096
I've got two girls and two boys My my oldest boys off my boys are 14 and 12 and my girls are 11 and 7 and I do worry for them I much like you I I very much believe in preventative rather than cure, because if you can get to them while they're young and give them that, I call it that ready, break, glow, that kind of resilience, so that the rest of the world can't chip away at them too much, but obviously that, that's really difficult, and we're all, we say there's no guidebook to parenting, there's loads, but there isn't any guide for you to parent the child that you were given, so we're all kind of floundering around in the dark a little bit, wanting to do the best for the kids, Oh, I love the sound of this organisation.

00:03:04.306 --> 00:03:06.045
It's nothing to do with the Girl Guides.

00:03:06.045 --> 00:03:09.415
I know people will hear Girl Group and wonder if there's a connection.

00:03:09.415 --> 00:03:11.105
It's not connected at all, is it?

00:03:11.126 --> 00:03:12.105
It's completely different.

00:03:12.290 --> 00:03:14.040
It's not, but do you know what?

00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:22.295
I'd love it to be as Omnipresent that when I grew up, everyone would join the brownies and lots of people carried on to the guides.

00:03:22.355 --> 00:03:33.966
I would like girls journeying together groups and girls net groups to be something that every girl grows up expecting to join at some point in life and knowing about where she can find her nearest group.

00:03:34.911 --> 00:03:43.411
I actually had a look on your website and there is one not a million miles away from me and I am going to talk to my older daughter about attending because I think it will be really beneficial.

00:03:43.411 --> 00:04:08.985
She started secondary school in September and although the adjustment hasn't been as dramatic as we perhaps feared, you do see changes, you know, they start to reject the cuddles, they start to roll their eyes and stamp their feet and of course that is a natural hitting puberty and being a teenager is to push back against your caregivers, but the worry is that they push us away too much and then they won't talk to us about what's going on.

00:04:09.515 --> 00:04:12.855
But we also want to give them the space to have independence.

00:04:12.936 --> 00:04:22.435
And I guess by creating these groups of peers, like you actually use the word tribe, which I use a lot to talk about my, my family, actually, but also my widowed tribe.

00:04:22.435 --> 00:04:30.336
And I think this idea of having, not feeling isolated, not feel like you're the only one, having people that are going through the same thing at the same time.

00:04:31.146 --> 00:04:39.136
And also, there aren't your schoolmates, because, you know, if you tell somebody incompetent something at school and they repeat it, that's, that's really, really demoralizing and painful.

00:04:39.136 --> 00:04:40.750
The A

00:04:41.050 --> 00:04:46.295
Yeah, so our Girls Journeying Together groups are for girls who are in year six and year seven.

00:04:46.336 --> 00:04:52.446
It's around that time when they're right, they're, they're on the brink of or already in puberty.

00:04:52.446 --> 00:04:57.675
So there's so many things that are changing in their lives, not just their bodies, but inside of them as well.

00:04:57.675 --> 00:05:03.516
That increase in sort of self awareness and with that comes increase in self consciousness as well.

00:05:04.026 --> 00:05:12.300
But it's also a place where We meet monthly for a year, so the girls make friends for life actually, but they get to feel what monthly feels like.

00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:16.560
They learn the practical stuff they need to know at that age of, at that age and stage.

00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:18.930
So what do the letters and numbers on a bra mean?

00:05:18.930 --> 00:05:21.321
And what do you do about spots and greasy hair?

00:05:21.321 --> 00:05:22.430
And how do you catch them?

00:05:22.471 --> 00:05:24.471
What if you start when you're not at home?

00:05:24.961 --> 00:05:39.091
But it's also, um, they share their hopes and their fears and they, we create a culture where they can Really experiment with who they are because they belong in the group just exactly as they are.

00:05:39.151 --> 00:05:50.060
They don't need to change anything about themselves to fit in and for many girls already at that age, they don't really have anywhere else in their lives where they are really able to be themselves in quite that same way.

00:05:50.860 --> 00:05:52.250
I remember at the end of one

00:05:52.295 --> 00:05:53.005
goose bumpy.

00:05:53.005 --> 00:05:53.855
Hehehehehehehehe.

00:05:54.156 --> 00:06:05.125
remember at the end of one year, this girl came up to me, she was definitely neurodiverse and she kind of scowled at me and she crossed her arms and she said, I like girls I never thought I'd like.

00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:08.430
And I said, how's that?

00:06:08.461 --> 00:06:10.391
And she kind of shrugged and went, it's all right.

00:06:11.250 --> 00:06:30.305
But for that girl, she had the experience of not only being allowed to, to get to know and to get close to girls that normally she, she wouldn't feel comfortable in herself to do, but also she had the experience of being really, Accepted and liked by the group.

00:06:30.625 --> 00:06:40.526
And one thing we do is in the month of their birthdays, we kind of hold a mirror up to them and we tell the girl what, what she looks like to us, what she seems like, what we like about her.

00:06:41.076 --> 00:06:49.415
And, um, that girl in particular, I'm thinking about the, the girls are really kind of honest, but in a, in a really sweet, gentle way.

00:06:49.415 --> 00:06:53.315
So they said, well, um, you're a bit strange.

00:06:53.531 --> 00:07:03.540
But in a nice way, you're kind of your own person and I really admire the courage because I don't quite dare to be quite quirky like you are.

00:07:04.130 --> 00:07:07.901
You don't say very much, but when you do, it's always worth listening to.

00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:20.716
So, um, it's something that we're offering is a space where girls can really, um, Sink into just being themselves, being comfortable, being able to play still.

00:07:20.906 --> 00:07:27.836
I think at that age, often there's a lot of pressure to put away the dolls or the Lego or whatever it is they've been playing with and be more grown up.

00:07:28.096 --> 00:07:31.985
And actually one of the things we notice is the girls just love to play together.

00:07:32.850 --> 00:07:37.141
We were just, funnily enough, my husband and I this morning, I'd ordered a Christmas present each for the girls.

00:07:37.141 --> 00:07:40.091
I can say this because they won't listen, but it's just a little doll type thing.

00:07:40.091 --> 00:07:41.100
It's a beanie baby.

00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:43.521
And I said, because we're away for Christmas.

00:07:43.550 --> 00:07:48.141
And I said, because on holiday, Holly forgets she's a preteen and she plays with her sister.

00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:52.620
And the same with my oldest son, like he's 14, but suddenly he'll be playing with his brother in the pool.

00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:53.800
And you decide.

00:07:54.365 --> 00:07:57.985
To bring out that playful side when they're trying so hard to be cool.

00:07:58.406 --> 00:07:59.605
That's lovely.

00:08:00.096 --> 00:08:01.446
And I can see it already.

00:08:01.446 --> 00:08:04.605
You know, my daughter has started wearing a little bit of makeup.

00:08:04.605 --> 00:08:07.536
And she's starting to worry about, you know, her hair.

00:08:07.536 --> 00:08:10.766
And not, not to any sort of concerning degree.

00:08:12.245 --> 00:08:12.615
You do.

00:08:12.615 --> 00:08:14.755
You, you're so afraid as a mother of a girl.

00:08:14.755 --> 00:08:16.596
And I had eating disorders.

00:08:16.636 --> 00:08:19.036
And I, I, terrible, terrible time of it.

00:08:19.396 --> 00:08:21.956
And so you're constantly, you know, we're looking at you.

00:08:21.956 --> 00:08:22.920
We don't say the word.

00:08:22.971 --> 00:08:24.940
Fat, we don't talk about calories in this house.

00:08:24.940 --> 00:08:25.990
Nobody's ever on a diet.

00:08:25.990 --> 00:08:28.161
We're very, you know, body positive.

00:08:28.161 --> 00:08:31.221
And it scares me.

00:08:31.230 --> 00:08:32.441
It really scares me.

00:08:32.510 --> 00:08:40.205
And it scares me that before you spot something is wrong, it's already too late, you know, already, because often they will keep it to themselves.

00:08:41.091 --> 00:08:45.451
And I love this idea of having this place where you could be unapologetically you.

00:08:46.091 --> 00:08:47.600
And it is, it's something I do.

00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.341
I'm a bit, you know, I do wind on a bit with these lovely little phrases that my kids all the time.

00:08:51.341 --> 00:08:52.931
But one of the things that I say to them is.

00:08:53.630 --> 00:08:57.020
It took me until I was in my 40s to know who I am.

00:08:57.201 --> 00:08:58.561
That's really sad.

00:08:58.740 --> 00:08:59.520
That's really sad.

00:08:59.520 --> 00:08:59.755
I said,

00:09:00.056 --> 00:09:02.035
Oh, but it's really common, Rosie.

00:09:02.086 --> 00:09:03.115
It's really common.

00:09:03.375 --> 00:09:03.686
It's,

00:09:03.760 --> 00:09:05.051
having the time of my life now.

00:09:05.051 --> 00:09:05.380
I know.

00:09:05.846 --> 00:09:06.145
Yeah.

00:09:06.196 --> 00:09:06.936
Our training.

00:09:06.936 --> 00:09:18.000
When we train women to run girls groups, that's a, that's a really Integral part of it is that we find out more and more who we are, who we are, authentically ourselves.

00:09:18.221 --> 00:09:23.020
And so we can step into who we really are so that we become full of ourselves.

00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.321
Because if we're not full of ourselves, what or who are we full of?

00:09:26.541 --> 00:09:32.510
Well, all those image makers, all the pressure that we, we experience as women and as girls growing up.

00:09:32.831 --> 00:09:40.880
So it's, it's, it is a life journey really to, to not only know who we are, but make friends with that and accept it.

00:09:41.260 --> 00:09:41.571
And.

00:09:41.951 --> 00:09:47.640
By doing that in the training, the women then become a really good role model for the girls that they're working with.

00:09:47.941 --> 00:09:53.441
What we say is the training turns you into the woman you'd have loved to have in your life when you were growing up.

00:09:53.831 --> 00:09:56.620
And Rosie, I'm sorry to hear that you had an eating disorder.

00:09:56.660 --> 00:10:00.280
That's, that's in that one sentence is a whole story.

00:10:00.321 --> 00:10:03.140
And I, I know that for myself personally.

00:10:03.171 --> 00:10:07.561
And the pressure that there is on girls now is even stronger than ever before.

00:10:07.561 --> 00:10:09.030
They have unrealistic.

00:10:09.341 --> 00:10:14.610
Images of, of girl and womanhood presented to them on a daily basis.

00:10:14.890 --> 00:10:24.721
And it's very hard for them to kind of navigate through that without it, it interfering with their sense of body image and their sense of what looks good and what is beautiful.

00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:34.571
We spend a whole session, actually a whole, a whole session on that in girls group, just because there's so much, um, to understand and to kind of fortify ourselves against.

00:10:35.505 --> 00:10:48.916
Yeah, and it is that kind of having the conversations younger, because often by the time, you know, you've come through puberty and you might have kept so many secrets and, you know, so much shame because there's a lot of shame as well around puberty and adolescence.

00:10:48.916 --> 00:10:55.140
You know, you're really, really, really figuring out who you are, but by keeping those lines of communication, because I know you want to be able to.

00:10:55.140 --> 00:11:00.171
Big things is, you know, take your daughter out, my mom and daughter date, spend time with them, engage with them.

00:11:00.841 --> 00:11:02.870
And that I do actually do with my kids.

00:11:02.890 --> 00:11:04.870
When we were little, we had, um, my brother's called Joe.

00:11:04.870 --> 00:11:07.640
We'd have a Rosie and a Joe day and my mom and dad had taken us and do something.

00:11:07.660 --> 00:11:09.671
And I've carried that on when, when I've been able to.

00:11:10.461 --> 00:11:16.341
And I took my, my, and she's my stepdaughter, which it does add a level of challenge.

00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:18.130
Her mom died when she was five.

00:11:18.171 --> 00:11:20.926
So I've been her mom since she was nearly seven.

00:11:21.105 --> 00:11:25.005
But obviously, um, she is a child that suffered enormous trauma.

00:11:25.475 --> 00:11:31.436
Um, so it's those bonds and making those bonds are kind of even more vital.

00:11:31.475 --> 00:11:32.956
And she loves Michael Jackson.

00:11:32.956 --> 00:11:35.966
So I took her to see the musical up in London and we had such a great time.

00:11:35.966 --> 00:11:37.115
You know, she got dressed up.

00:11:37.306 --> 00:11:44.245
We had a really, really lovely time, but it doesn't always have to be something that X expensive because that was expensive.

00:11:44.826 --> 00:11:48.186
Or dramatic, it can just be come with me and walk the dog, can't it?

00:11:48.186 --> 00:11:54.495
It can be, I find my kids will talk to me if we're doing an activity, but it's that one on one time that they seem to crave.

00:11:55.306 --> 00:12:00.436
Yeah, the whole of the first chapter of my book is devoted to this idea.

00:12:00.855 --> 00:12:04.456
Um, it was my daughter actually who helped me come up with it.

00:12:04.525 --> 00:12:09.916
Um, she is the youngest of three children and I home educated our children.

00:12:09.936 --> 00:12:16.230
And so I thought that I was a really present mother and she would come up to me and ask, For a cuddle.

00:12:16.230 --> 00:12:21.221
And I put my arm around her whilst I was typing with the other hand or stirring the pot or whatever I was doing.

00:12:21.721 --> 00:12:25.686
And she'd look up at me and she'd go, no, mommy, I want a full attention cuddle.

00:12:25.985 --> 00:12:26.495
hmm.

00:12:26.796 --> 00:12:34.931
And I realized that actually it's a full attention, what parent or what teacher or carer doesn't want to boost a child's self esteem.

00:12:34.931 --> 00:12:37.250
And we have all kinds of questions.

00:12:37.250 --> 00:12:38.230
How do we do that?

00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.520
How do we make a child feel good about themselves?

00:12:40.520 --> 00:12:43.750
Well, this is a very real practical way that we can do that.

00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:47.105
And, um, I call it the mother daughter date.

00:12:47.336 --> 00:12:50.216
Of course, our sons need it too, and it doesn't have to be mother.

00:12:50.216 --> 00:12:56.485
It could be grandmother, auntie, father, spending regular time with our children, just one on one.

00:12:57.525 --> 00:13:03.895
When an adult chooses to spend what seems to them like their spare time, that's really makes a child feel good.

00:13:03.895 --> 00:13:04.725
It makes them feel special.

00:13:05.046 --> 00:13:05.735
Important.

00:13:05.735 --> 00:13:12.765
And when we give them our full attention, um, and like you say, it doesn't have to be a big trip up to London or an all day thing.

00:13:12.765 --> 00:13:22.806
It can be just stopping off at your favorite cafe for a hot chocolate on the way home from school, or it's that they've got you all to themselves and it doesn't have to cost a lot.

00:13:22.826 --> 00:13:27.115
And one of my daughter's favorite ones was, um, to go charity shop shopping.

00:13:27.145 --> 00:13:27.796
I'm not a shopper.

00:13:28.066 --> 00:13:28.826
I hate shopping.

00:13:28.975 --> 00:13:33.946
So first off, she already knew that I must really love her if I was going to go charity shop, shopping with her.

00:13:34.316 --> 00:13:38.096
And then we had a rule that we would buy one thing, one thing only.

00:13:38.525 --> 00:13:41.385
Um, but that thing had to be used on our date.

00:13:41.696 --> 00:13:52.850
So we ended up having some crazy, crazy dates cause we'd find something, um, and either wear it or one of the things is we found this old fashioned waffle pancake kind of thing.

00:13:53.096 --> 00:13:53.515
Yeah.

00:13:53.931 --> 00:13:54.931
wasn't electric.

00:13:55.181 --> 00:14:02.721
And so then we went to the supermarket and bought the ingredients and then we came home and we made the waffles and then we fed them to the rest of the family with all kinds of different toppings.

00:14:02.721 --> 00:14:05.130
And this is the stuff of childhood memories.

00:14:05.605 --> 00:14:07.000
And it's such a single thing.

00:14:07.301 --> 00:14:10.270
helping with work and keeping the clothes clean and all the rest of it.

00:14:10.441 --> 00:14:14.811
And they take that for granted, but it's the moments when we get down to their level.

00:14:15.390 --> 00:14:33.480
Both physically, but also in terms of just giving them our full attention that really helps them to know that they, that we're interested in them, that there is time and space for them to, um, tell us anything that's, that they kind of haven't necessarily felt like there's the privacy or the space to tell.

00:14:34.076 --> 00:14:39.995
At another time, but also to have fun together and develop, develop rituals that are just yours.

00:14:40.125 --> 00:14:41.605
This is mommy and me time.

00:14:41.625 --> 00:14:42.775
This is what we do.

00:14:43.125 --> 00:14:50.846
And in fact, my daughter, who's now 19, she came back from the supermarket the other day with matching pajamas, one set for me and one set for her.

00:14:51.296 --> 00:14:52.365
Um, and she said.

00:14:52.725 --> 00:14:56.725
She said, this is for us to do a sofa date because we used to do those a lot.

00:14:56.985 --> 00:15:00.105
And, um, she's booked me and we're going to watch a video.

00:15:00.525 --> 00:15:02.535
The ice princess, which we've watched.

00:15:02.546 --> 00:15:14.466
I don't know how many times, cause it was one of her favorites and she's booked me for a mother daughter date with popcorn that we shall make beforehand, shared pajamas and this video that is like, I don't know.

00:15:14.515 --> 00:15:14.921
I, it's just.

00:15:15.301 --> 00:15:17.990
It's aimed at preteens, I think, but we're going to love it.

00:15:18.985 --> 00:15:23.350
that's really nice, and the fact that she's now both proactive in creating these.

00:15:23.350 --> 00:15:24.400
Because she wants to do it.

00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:30.400
And actually, once you've got a 19 year old, it's you that wants their time because they're too busy living their own lives.

00:15:30.890 --> 00:15:34.500
Somebody told me when Ben, my husband was, my first husband was called Ben.

00:15:34.541 --> 00:15:43.691
Um, when he died, um, that one of the best things I could do for my children was when they hugged me was not to let go first, and I'm now heard that the Disney animals do it as well.

00:15:43.701 --> 00:15:46.801
So I'm effectively Minnie Mouse, but I did do that.

00:15:46.801 --> 00:15:53.135
And sometimes that hug would be, you know, Five minutes, but occasionally you, and I still do it now.

00:15:53.155 --> 00:15:57.196
My, my, my middle son is autistic and he, he really needs that kind of power.

00:15:57.216 --> 00:15:59.885
Sometimes he'll just come and seek me out and we'll just hold each other.

00:16:00.326 --> 00:16:01.166
And it's just the most.

00:16:01.701 --> 00:16:27.216
Precious thing because we sort of breathe in unison and you can feel our cortisol come down It's I I think that's one of the best bits of advice I was ever given I mean, they don't the oldest don't come and hug me that often anymore but obviously when girls, um get to Puberty get to a kind of, you know, their teens, they might not be quite so receptive to a the physical touch, but also be the spending time together.

00:16:27.785 --> 00:16:34.975
And I think some, I'm, I'm sort of, you know, uh, theorizing here, but I'm, I'm guessing that you don't phrase it as a demand.

00:16:34.985 --> 00:16:49.216
It's a, would you like to, you, you know, you sort of say, Sneak in thinking of something that they might like to do and it's very much around you doing something that they want to do rather than I need to go to blue water, you're coming with me kind of thing.

00:16:51.530 --> 00:16:52.370
It's a date.

00:16:52.581 --> 00:16:55.711
So if you think about a date, what are the ingredients of a date?

00:16:55.711 --> 00:16:57.120
Well, you both plan it.

00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:58.900
Together beforehand.

00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.961
So you get to anticipate it and look forward to it.

00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:03.821
You agree what you're going to do.

00:17:04.060 --> 00:17:06.891
So sometimes you'll do something that one of you loves to do.

00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.560
Sometimes you'll do something that the other one loves to do.

00:17:09.931 --> 00:17:16.441
Um, if your daughter is at a phase or in a stage of her relationship with you, that she might kind of go, why do I want to do that with you?

00:17:16.671 --> 00:17:17.851
Then you go to where she is.

00:17:17.905 --> 00:17:21.885
Buy her favorite biscuits and ask her to show you what, whatever it is.

00:17:21.885 --> 00:17:24.435
She's watching on Tik TOK and make that be your date.

00:17:24.435 --> 00:17:27.445
You know, you start small and go to where they're at.

00:17:27.865 --> 00:17:31.756
Um, and then it might be, sometimes you need to throw a bit of money at it.

00:17:32.415 --> 00:17:35.875
Um, sometimes there might be something that they can't do on their own.

00:17:35.915 --> 00:17:39.996
And if you say, look, like you said, I'll take you to see the Michael Jackson thing up in London.

00:17:40.006 --> 00:17:40.395
It's like, what?

00:17:40.455 --> 00:17:42.326
What child is going to say no to that?

00:17:42.336 --> 00:17:43.476
If that's their passion.

00:17:43.865 --> 00:17:46.346
Um, other than, Oh, I'd rather go with my mates.

00:17:46.635 --> 00:17:51.296
And it's like, well, you know, okay, well then, uh, what would you like to do with me?

00:17:51.296 --> 00:17:52.546
What could we do together?

00:17:52.905 --> 00:17:57.645
Um, actually sometimes it's about helping them to do it without losing face.

00:17:57.915 --> 00:18:05.665
If they're in a bit of a moody phase with you, um, it's about finding something that you can do together where they, they kind of almost.

00:18:05.955 --> 00:18:11.185
Don't quite own up to the fact that they're looking forward to it or that you're going to have fun together.

00:18:11.566 --> 00:18:15.615
Um, and, and for some, it's just, you, you, you surprise them.

00:18:15.625 --> 00:18:20.826
You put, you know, you're on your way, you're on a journey or something and you pull up somewhere and have a treat.

00:18:20.846 --> 00:18:27.615
You know, you buy food is a great one, you know, have a fruity treat as long as that's not something that's a real battle issue for them.

00:18:27.615 --> 00:18:31.056
In which case, you know, is it stationary that you love?

00:18:31.076 --> 00:18:33.665
You kind of go, okay, right, we've now got.

00:18:34.161 --> 00:18:35.260
20 minutes spare.

00:18:35.631 --> 00:18:37.760
Here's a tenner for stationary.

00:18:37.760 --> 00:18:39.611
Let's buy a lovely notebook or something.

00:18:39.800 --> 00:18:40.411
You know, you just,

00:18:40.486 --> 00:18:40.726
it.

00:18:40.736 --> 00:18:41.115
Yeah.

00:18:41.711 --> 00:18:41.830
yeah.

00:18:42.441 --> 00:18:42.711
Yeah.

00:18:42.740 --> 00:18:54.810
Yeah, and I do remember my parents doing stuff like that, and it really did make you feel special, and they weren't, you know, wildly extravagant things, but, you know, my mum and dad took me to borrow my first pair of Levi's, I remember that, that was really exciting.

00:18:54.810 --> 00:19:00.942
Now, a tip I'd like to ask you, while I've got you as well, is the issue of early puberty.

00:19:00.942 --> 00:19:04.925
Now, I, Hit puberty at what would have been a fairly normal age.

00:19:04.925 --> 00:19:07.405
I was around 12, period started around 13.

00:19:08.266 --> 00:19:17.405
I know, um, anecdotally that what we're seeing is a massive increase in girls going through puberty, starting their periods, growing breasts, a primary school.

00:19:17.705 --> 00:19:20.246
And actually my older daughter, this happened to her.

00:19:20.326 --> 00:19:23.645
She was very, very young and I'm, I have permission to talk about it.

00:19:24.165 --> 00:19:33.276
Um, And I'm just thinking now of going into primary school where it's little children and you're, you're starting more than hoods.

00:19:33.556 --> 00:19:41.316
And I mean, things I did in order to kind of make it feel a little bit less terrifying for her, because I mean, of course I had to go away the day that she started her period.

00:19:41.355 --> 00:19:49.395
So I reached out to the women in my family, we had a little pack ready and they all messaged her, nothing too deep, but just, you know, kind of welcome to the club kind of thing.

00:19:49.955 --> 00:20:02.310
Um, we've tried as best as we can to navigate it in the most age appropriate way because it's very difficult for a child of that age to understand what's happening to their body, their mood, their skin.

00:20:02.310 --> 00:20:07.971
And I'm just wondering if that's something that you're seeing reflected in having an impact on their mental health now.

00:20:09.891 --> 00:20:10.550
Yes.

00:20:10.641 --> 00:20:19.391
Um, we spend quite a bit of time in Girls Journeying together learning about periods and the different ways of catching the blood and what's going on inside of you.

00:20:19.401 --> 00:20:23.480
Cause it's not just when you're bleeding, it's through the whole month we go through a cycle.

00:20:23.711 --> 00:20:26.151
And we are

00:20:26.451 --> 00:20:28.030
the luteal phase is brutal.

00:20:32.510 --> 00:20:33.320
younger and younger.

00:20:33.351 --> 00:20:36.971
There's a couple of, um, very clear reasons for that.

00:20:37.340 --> 00:20:39.651
Um, first our diet has improved.

00:20:39.661 --> 00:20:48.010
So, um, and girls who maybe are carrying a little bit more weight, um, will tend to start going to puberty sooner.

00:20:48.828 --> 00:20:51.820
Sadly, there's something else in our diet that impacts on us.

00:20:51.840 --> 00:21:01.246
If we are eating, um, meat, or dairy that is not organic, then it is full of oestrogens, which is essentially female hormones.

00:21:01.256 --> 00:21:07.395
So by giving our girls, and not, we can't afford Buy organic all of the time.

00:21:07.395 --> 00:21:17.526
So what my would say is if you've got a girl, if you can afford at all to buy something organic, then make it be the meat and the dairy because it's packed with estrogen.

00:21:17.536 --> 00:21:26.476
So essentially what you're doing is giving her female hormones and that can bring on puberty earlier and eight is very young and it is too young for them to really.

00:21:26.935 --> 00:21:28.064
Properly fully understand.

00:21:28.125 --> 00:21:30.445
Although of course, they're going to need some sort of understanding.

00:21:30.445 --> 00:21:41.445
So there's a whole chapter in my book, actually, which gives you the words for, for how to age appropriately, explain to your daughter what's going on in her body and answer her questions.

00:21:41.855 --> 00:21:43.316
Um, because not all of us got it.

00:21:43.576 --> 00:21:45.135
Done in a way, modeled in a way.

00:21:45.135 --> 00:21:47.506
So we don't have a blueprint necessarily to go on.

00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:49.310
No, I can remember being,

00:21:49.806 --> 00:21:52.976
actually we need to take on like you did with your daughter.

00:21:53.165 --> 00:21:55.016
We actually have to do more for them.

00:21:55.016 --> 00:22:06.155
We can't expect them to manage their dirty pads or, or, you know, as the adult in their life, we kind of need to take it on a bit, um, and not expect too much of them because eight is a child.

00:22:06.516 --> 00:22:09.016
Um, and, and then it's about.

00:22:09.701 --> 00:22:20.371
I love that you got your friends to text saying welcome to the club because in terms of mental well being, um, what, what, what anybody, any child struggles with is if they feel different.

00:22:20.421 --> 00:22:29.816
So if they're ahead of everyone else and they're having to manage it in primary school, we need to make sure for a start that the school has, Sanitary bins in their toilets.

00:22:29.816 --> 00:22:32.536
So they, they, the girl finds it easy to deal with that.

00:22:32.536 --> 00:22:35.215
She knows where she can get supplies if she needs it.

00:22:35.675 --> 00:22:40.596
Um, but there's also that she can leave in the middle of a class if that's okay, if that's necessary.

00:22:40.605 --> 00:22:43.486
And actually there are many schools where that's not the case.

00:22:43.496 --> 00:22:53.726
And that's our job as the adult women in their lives to make sure that the school that our children are at is a place where they can comfortably get themselves to the toilet in a, in a hurry if they need to.

00:22:53.730 --> 00:23:01.030
And it's interesting that you talk about that because there is a, um, I mean, let's be honest, dealing with period products is gross.

00:23:01.151 --> 00:23:01.550
It is.

00:23:01.861 --> 00:23:06.441
There is, I haven't found a non gross way of doing it yet in my 43 years on earth.

00:23:07.101 --> 00:23:14.820
So when you're trying to teach a relative young child who was almost nine, so once we say nine, then, You need, you need, yes, you need to step up.

00:23:14.820 --> 00:23:15.971
We provide a special bins.

00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:23.240
We tried all various different, you know, uh, pants in pants and trying to find a thing that works, but there is shame around it.

00:23:23.250 --> 00:23:28.671
There is a concern that they might smell that they need to be really, really hot on their personal hygiene.

00:23:28.701 --> 00:23:34.671
Cause with periods comes body odor, comes hair, comes the lots of other different changes.

00:23:34.701 --> 00:23:37.500
And so it's trying to have those conversations about.

00:23:37.810 --> 00:23:47.830
Because you know where it's like trying to get a toddler to wash and brush their teeth, but toddlers don't smell and they're not going to get bullied at school for smelling, and as long as you keep on top of the teeth brushing, you know, in a weekly bath, you're fine.

00:23:48.451 --> 00:23:57.931
But suddenly they need to be washing pretty much every day, their hair gets greasy, and again that's another kind of demand on a child that isn't really ready for that.

00:23:58.760 --> 00:24:15.780
I'm just wondering if you had any sort of suggestions and approaches for how you can Generally you say to your daughter, you know, you need to, you know, other than get in the shower, you stink, which isn't the approach I use for my autistic son because nothing else works, but for daughter, for daughter, sometimes I think you have to be a little bit more sensitive because you don't want to poke the bear.

00:24:16.536 --> 00:24:18.036
Yes, absolutely.

00:24:18.066 --> 00:24:20.195
And it depends on the age.

00:24:20.226 --> 00:24:24.875
I mean, if they're a bit older, you just say, look, if you don't have a whole shower, just wash the hairy bits.

00:24:25.246 --> 00:24:25.790
They know exactly

00:24:26.090 --> 00:24:27.758
Yes, I do.

00:24:27.758 --> 00:24:29.154
Bits and

00:24:29.454 --> 00:24:30.605
um, and.

00:24:30.996 --> 00:24:38.796
When they're younger, or if they're neurodiverse, then, um, much clearer direction is sometimes necessary.

00:24:39.115 --> 00:24:42.746
And we do want to keep any sense of shame out of it.

00:24:42.756 --> 00:24:47.796
So we don't talk about the fact that you smell or anything that will make them feel self conscious.

00:24:48.115 --> 00:24:49.405
We just say, look.

00:24:49.796 --> 00:24:51.836
Once you go into puberty, there's a new rule.

00:24:52.346 --> 00:24:55.145
And the rule is that you wash every day.

00:24:55.415 --> 00:25:01.996
And if they're young, you make it playful, just the same as you had to make bath time playful when they were little, you do the same thing.

00:25:02.006 --> 00:25:06.506
You kind of go, you know, um, something, what's something they like, you know, here's your book.

00:25:06.911 --> 00:25:12.010
It's hostage till you've had a shower or whatever, you know, we, we just, you, we know our children best.

00:25:12.010 --> 00:25:13.661
We know what's going to work with them.

00:25:13.941 --> 00:25:37.881
But, but certainly what we, we need to do is keep our own adult anxiety that the child will get shunned because she smells or, um, that she isn't, you know, In whatever way isn't taking enough care of her personal hygiene, especially if she's young or she's neurodiverse, we need to really get quite involved in that, but not in a way that's belittling or shaming, but just playful and fun

00:25:38.181 --> 00:25:46.290
And Nicole, I find across my house, it's, um, gentle reminders, you know, just, I'll sort of put my head in, don't you need to wash today?

00:25:46.300 --> 00:25:48.851
Or I'll sometimes say, would you like a shower or a bath?

00:25:48.901 --> 00:25:52.611
You know, that good old two, two answer question, but either way is fine for us.

00:25:53.191 --> 00:25:58.580
And I mean, coming in that way, rather than you've got to shower, you've got to shower, you've got to shower.

00:25:58.590 --> 00:25:59.500
And I am guilty.

00:25:59.500 --> 00:26:03.230
I have to say of saying, if you don't shower, you'll smell and people will be mean to you.

00:26:03.540 --> 00:26:04.040
Because.

00:26:04.310 --> 00:26:19.121
It feels, I can, I can remember, you know, that feeling in the girl in my class, and you so badly want to protect your child, and those are ways that you can, you know, you send them off into the world and you're thinking, well, this is my job, I can take responsibility for this.

00:26:19.711 --> 00:26:43.111
And of course, You have to, nine year old, yes, you're having a bath, come on, let's make it fun, you've got a massive, great, stroppy 13, 14 year old, and sometimes you are going to have to be a little bit more forceful, and I think you're right, withdrawing a privilege if you have to, but maybe not being, kind of, I don't know, really, really pushing on it, and I guess the other thing is that somebody at school will tell them that they smell, and then they'll probably up their personal hygiene.

00:26:43.411 --> 00:26:48.566
sometimes their peers will do the parenting and they won't do it as gently as we do.

00:26:48.736 --> 00:26:50.205
And I never, when I say.

00:26:50.701 --> 00:26:52.070
Rigid withdrawal privileges.

00:26:52.101 --> 00:26:54.050
I, that's not a parenting style.

00:26:54.050 --> 00:27:02.570
I generally go for, um, I, I was saying that in a playful way of like, here's the storybook I'm going to read to you and, but first you have to have a shower.

00:27:02.770 --> 00:27:08.391
Another thing I found worked with my older teens was, um, to say, I've washed your sheets today.

00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:09.641
Yes, I do that with

00:27:09.830 --> 00:27:13.961
There's nothing like getting into clean sheets when you've just had a bath or a shower.

00:27:14.290 --> 00:27:19.300
So, again, it's to motivate them, um, to make it seem like something they want to do.

00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:27.490
And it's not about tricking them, but it's remembering that actually, teenagers, we think their lives are easy, but they have so much on their minds.

00:27:27.780 --> 00:27:52.030
And they're carrying so many pressures to be a certain way, to dress a certain way, to perform okay at school, to be, you know, that, that actually, Personal hygiene and and it can just feel like one thing too many so it's it's that's our role as their parents particularly as children go through their teenage years and their brain changes and their prefrontal cortex doesn't work as well.

00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:59.090
We have to be there prefrontal cortex they don't remember things and it's not because they're being lazy or.

00:27:59.816 --> 00:28:01.605
Purposefully kind of neglectful.

00:28:01.635 --> 00:28:03.756
It's that actually they genuinely don't remember.

00:28:04.056 --> 00:28:15.185
And so it's, how do we find, you know, and different children are different, you know, a post it note on the, on the mirror as they're brushing their teeth, which kind of reminds, yeah, or, or, you know, you put a.

00:28:15.471 --> 00:28:18.276
A coconut in their bed and they're like, what's that in here for?

00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:18.560
Well,

00:28:18.576 --> 00:28:19.236
to remind you to wash.

00:28:19.280 --> 00:28:29.490
to remind you, but to go and have a wash with the coconut soap that I've put in the shower, you know, whatever it is that we do that, that, um, is working with them, um,

00:28:29.790 --> 00:28:30.540
There's also just

00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:33.840
them as they forget everything at that stage.

00:28:34.395 --> 00:28:36.695
the problem is I forget everything too, so it's carnage.

00:28:37.105 --> 00:29:03.631
But, I'm also thinking, I'm kind of going off on, I said there wouldn't be any planned questions because I'd just go off on one, but I'm thinking about Uh, dads, actually, in this scenario, if your daughter has hit puberty young and perhaps you took part in the bathing or perhaps you're a solo parent because, you know, there's lots of widowed and single dads out there, when your daughter starts to become pubescent, They can feel a little bit uncomfortable about sort of nudity and washing them.

00:29:04.211 --> 00:29:09.931
And I suppose, how would you reassure, you know, in the hopeless and money less thing that it's still okay?

00:29:09.931 --> 00:29:11.661
Or you can sort of talk them through it.

00:29:11.661 --> 00:29:13.421
You don't have to physically go and wash them.

00:29:13.421 --> 00:29:15.121
I mean, where are the boundaries on that?

00:29:16.931 --> 00:29:21.401
So the boundaries are what feels comfortable to you and to your child.

00:29:21.941 --> 00:29:25.901
Often when children start to go into puberty, they naturally become more.

00:29:26.351 --> 00:29:36.121
private, whether it's with men or with women, um, carers, um, so it's important that we respect that and they might start wanting to lock the bathroom door.

00:29:36.171 --> 00:29:45.980
Now it might be that we don't want them to lock the bathroom door, so we just need to say, okay, um, if the door is shut, I'll treat it as if it's knocked and locked and I'll knock first.

00:29:46.780 --> 00:29:48.871
Um, but equally, I think.

00:29:50.256 --> 00:30:02.965
It's really important for both parents, but dads in particular, not to assume that a girl who starts to have a little bit of dark hair between her legs or little breast buds, that she will feel uncomfortable about it.

00:30:02.976 --> 00:30:09.705
She might still feel really comfy in her body and actually it's perfectly fine for her to be naked around you still.

00:30:10.046 --> 00:30:14.326
Um, I think a lot of dads get a bit freaked out when their girls go into puberty.

00:30:14.721 --> 00:30:30.260
Partly because, um, it maybe reminds them when they were a teenage boy themselves, or maybe they, as the girl goes into their teenagerhood and she starts to look a bit like maybe her mum did when he first met her, a lot of dads kind of don't trust themselves.

00:30:30.621 --> 00:30:31.861
And I think you can.

00:30:32.520 --> 00:30:43.441
You know that the role of father is different than any other role in that girl's life and actually girls need their dads to stay connected and stay in their lives and not step back.

00:30:43.490 --> 00:30:47.351
I know a lot of dads who kind of go, Whoa, it's all getting very emotional now.

00:30:47.351 --> 00:30:48.461
It's not my territory.

00:30:48.461 --> 00:30:49.601
I don't know how to handle this.

00:30:50.020 --> 00:30:55.881
And they, they hand over responsibility typically to a, to the mother or another woman in their lives.

00:30:56.230 --> 00:30:57.661
But girls actually.

00:30:58.046 --> 00:31:00.756
Father is the, is the teacher of relationship.

00:31:01.006 --> 00:31:02.675
Mothers are taken for granted.

00:31:03.016 --> 00:31:04.175
Um, like the earth.

00:31:04.556 --> 00:31:09.965
Um, it's to their dads that girls will often look for approval and for respect.

00:31:10.266 --> 00:31:43.911
And if dads are kind of absent in, in, in, in, Any of the many different ways that parents can absent themselves, I don't just mean physically absent, but if they're not emotionally or, or, or socially connected, then, um, girls don't get that reflection back and just dads, no pressure here, but just know that you set the bar, how you, how you relate to your daughter and how she sees you relating to the other important women in her life sets the blueprint for what she'll expect from the men and the boys in her life.

00:31:44.431 --> 00:31:54.790
So yes, that does feel like a pressure, but it also gives you a lot of power, a lot of influence because if you treat your daughter, well, that's what she'll expect from the men in her life.

00:31:55.161 --> 00:31:58.201
Um, and we all, I'm not talking about perfect parents here.

00:31:58.201 --> 00:32:05.020
We all mess up, especially when we're stressed, but when we're stressed and we watch ourselves not parenting as well as we know we can.

00:32:05.465 --> 00:32:14.516
That's the red flag to us to take some time out and have a break and recharge our batteries and nourish ourselves because that's when we do our best parenting.

00:32:15.746 --> 00:32:18.465
And there is, there is that kind of self forgiveness isn't there?

00:32:18.605 --> 00:32:21.915
Because we have all lost our tempers, we've all said things we didn't mean.

00:32:22.316 --> 00:32:25.796
And I also find that owning that is really powerful.

00:32:26.266 --> 00:32:28.236
So my mum and dad were great parents.

00:32:28.316 --> 00:32:32.096
My dad was absent a lot, he was a journalist, but he was very present in my life.

00:32:32.105 --> 00:32:40.411
He used to write to me, I've got a scrapbook with cards from all over the world and I was always you know He always made me feel very special and he still does.

00:32:40.411 --> 00:32:41.300
I've got a lovely dad.

00:32:41.651 --> 00:32:45.651
This idea of saying sorry is not something that my parents generation did.

00:32:45.760 --> 00:32:48.101
I have a lovely, lovely relationship with my parents.

00:32:48.101 --> 00:32:50.820
They were very, very nurturing for me when I was growing up.

00:32:50.820 --> 00:32:52.701
Dad was absent through work.

00:32:52.701 --> 00:33:01.740
He was a journalist, but he wrote to me from, you know, All the corners of the globe, I've got a scrapbook of all these notes and he made me feel special and he continues to do so.

00:33:01.780 --> 00:33:08.480
So, I think that love that you pour into a child is so important, but what they didn't necessarily do is say sorry.

00:33:09.030 --> 00:33:15.736
So, as any mother does, my mom would flare up, but the apology and the acting, Acknowledgement that you were wrong.

00:33:16.375 --> 00:33:17.816
That's quite difficult to do, isn't it?

00:33:17.816 --> 00:33:28.536
You have to step down off your pedestal and you have to say sometimes I get it rather than in this occasion I did and I'm sorry and in my Experience, which I'd say is extensive with four children.

00:33:29.026 --> 00:33:34.125
They will they will thank you for the apology and You will move forward from it.

00:33:34.145 --> 00:33:40.830
Whereas if you lock in, you know, my word is law you will do as I say Don't ask questions.

00:33:40.830 --> 00:33:49.820
My word is that all the highway, then actually what you're going to do is, is create a barrier between you, but it's going to over time, stop them coming to you for help.

00:33:50.826 --> 00:34:00.806
Yeah, there is no such thing as a perfect parent and, and actually part of our parenting role is to teach our children how to rupture and repair.

00:34:01.776 --> 00:34:14.206
So when we make a mistake, if we're able to, like you say, own up to it and find a way of repairing, whether it be an apology or some other way of putting it right, we're essentially doing our parenting job.

00:34:14.206 --> 00:34:18.405
We're giving them a school, a skill for life, which is in our relationships.

00:34:18.405 --> 00:34:20.215
When we mess up, what do we do next?

00:34:20.215 --> 00:34:21.235
Do we cover up?

00:34:21.456 --> 00:34:22.846
Do we pretend it doesn't happen?

00:34:22.846 --> 00:34:23.755
Do we deny it?

00:34:24.065 --> 00:34:29.201
Or do we actually Own it, admit it, apologize and see what we can do to make it right.

00:34:29.621 --> 00:34:36.501
And that does take being quite mature and in our better moments, we can do that, but we can't always do it all the time.

00:34:36.791 --> 00:34:38.541
And, um, that's okay too.

00:34:39.740 --> 00:34:47.800
Now you did mention, because I misinterpreted something you said, and you said, I don't support removal of privilege as a consequence.

00:34:48.061 --> 00:34:59.420
And I just wanted to pull you back into that, because as modern parents, I'm going to take your iPad, I'm going to take your phone, those are probably the most used consequences that we give to children.

00:35:01.021 --> 00:35:05.541
Why would you, why would you sort of caution against that, and what would you suggest instead?

00:35:05.561 --> 00:35:05.570
Mm

00:35:06.820 --> 00:35:07.820
I wouldn't.

00:35:08.235 --> 00:35:14.545
Want to tell anyone how to parent, because we all have our own style and we've figured out what works.

00:35:14.876 --> 00:35:17.896
So I was just talking about myself in my parenting.

00:35:18.695 --> 00:35:26.856
Um, I find that if I get to the point where I'm resorting to threats, I've usually lost my authority.

00:35:27.925 --> 00:35:36.795
Um, generally it's enough for me to be talking to my child and saying, you know, I would like you to do this.

00:35:37.385 --> 00:35:43.766
Um, Children desperately want the approval of their parents, they want to do right by us.

00:35:43.976 --> 00:35:47.556
If we've locked horns, then that's a conversation we need to have.

00:35:47.576 --> 00:35:53.775
If I've bullied them into doing what I want them to do, I haven't won, I've lost.

00:35:54.036 --> 00:36:02.525
I've lost my authority and also their focus will be on how angry they feel towards me, not on understanding why that thing was important.

00:36:03.456 --> 00:36:06.445
So essentially, I've failed them as a parent at that point.

00:36:06.746 --> 00:36:11.635
Now, that's not to say we don't always, all parents at some point, there are consequences.

00:36:11.646 --> 00:36:14.155
Like, if you don't get your shoes on right now, we're going to be late.

00:36:14.306 --> 00:36:16.016
That's a very real consequence.

00:36:16.496 --> 00:36:20.365
But, you know, if you don't get, if you don't do this, I'm going to take your iPad away.

00:36:20.856 --> 00:36:25.786
The child, it's no longer, like, why do I want them to do that thing?

00:36:26.751 --> 00:36:37.990
The iPad is not connected to the thing, so it's confusing, and all they now feel is angry because I've taken their iPad away, and they'll just look for ways in which they can now subvert what I want them to do.

00:36:38.251 --> 00:36:41.721
And actually, I've broken relationship with them at that point.

00:36:41.721 --> 00:36:43.331
I've not treated them respectfully.

00:36:43.471 --> 00:36:47.650
I wouldn't say to a friend, if you don't do what I say, I'm going to take away your car keys.

00:36:48.050 --> 00:36:50.070
So I wouldn't do it to my child either.

00:36:50.900 --> 00:36:57.010
And things like removal of screens if perhaps they've been used inappropriately, that sort of thing, I'm guessing that's different.

00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:01.061
And actually, I mean, the words I've written down to send were picking battles.

00:37:01.431 --> 00:37:02.601
You know, sort of pick your battles.

00:37:03.371 --> 00:37:04.740
Tidy bedroom, does it matter?

00:37:04.811 --> 00:37:07.291
Um, you know, we have a sort of, if it's not clean by 10 a.

00:37:07.291 --> 00:37:16.320
m., we don't get McDonald's Monday, you know, that's our, it's only on a Saturday, if your washing's not done, we give my kids McDonald's on Monday, no perfect parent, right?

00:37:17.041 --> 00:37:30.690
Um, but it's all about sort of giving them the why, because I might, if you ask me to do something, but you don't tell me why, I'm probably not going to do it, or I'm going to do it quite reluctantly.

00:37:31.161 --> 00:37:35.521
But sometimes I'll say to my kids, I'm trying not to make them feel guilty, but I'm like, right, there's six people in this house.

00:37:36.295 --> 00:37:40.815
If I wash everybody's clothes, I put them into piles, I bring them into their rooms, I do that.

00:37:41.356 --> 00:37:48.126
If I then stand in your bedroom and put all your clothes away into your drawers, hang them up, tidy up the dirty ones, do all that, how can I have a job?

00:37:48.255 --> 00:37:49.215
How can I have a life?

00:37:49.266 --> 00:37:50.936
Because that's, that is a full time job.

00:37:50.985 --> 00:38:08.291
However, if each of you takes responsibility for the lovely clothes that I've laundered for you, so it's a sort of halfway, because I'm, I'm also not about making my kids do too many chores, because I think they're children and they should be enjoying themselves, but you have got to kind of Give them a little responsibility and realize that we're a team.

00:38:08.300 --> 00:38:09.101
We're a tribe.

00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:10.340
We all pull together.

00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:11.570
Everything becomes a bit easier.

00:38:11.891 --> 00:38:15.181
And if I'm honest, that response works a lot more than the more draconian.

00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:17.760
If you don't do this, I'm going to take your iPad away.

00:38:19.030 --> 00:38:20.751
Now we've touched on iPads.

00:38:21.596 --> 00:38:23.346
So, screen time.

00:38:23.956 --> 00:38:40.155
Where, how on earth are parents, and I know this is a big subject that we perhaps won't even get a chance to cover but we can scratch the surface a bit because we, these iPads these phones, you can put parental restrictions on them, you can think that you have covered every base.

00:38:40.815 --> 00:38:45.565
Something you'll get through be it, you know, a schoolmate saying something horrible or weird.

00:38:45.565 --> 00:38:51.646
I want to chat on Minecraft, you know, there are so many ways that your children can be harmed.

00:38:52.315 --> 00:39:01.826
But also if we say to them, you can't have the same access to the same modern pop culture of your peers, we then risk alienating them.

00:39:02.286 --> 00:39:03.335
Oh, I'm going to be honest with you.

00:39:03.335 --> 00:39:05.065
I've had some really, really helpful.

00:39:06.786 --> 00:39:08.175
So how do you find that balance?

00:39:08.811 --> 00:39:12.601
Every family has to make, find their own way with this.

00:39:13.090 --> 00:39:25.030
Um, typically, The longer you can keep them off screens, the easier it is to, um, for them not to get addicted because that's

00:39:25.106 --> 00:39:26.335
And it is an addiction, isn't it?

00:39:26.365 --> 00:39:27.376
It is an addiction.

00:39:28.481 --> 00:39:36.940
But if we want to modulate our child's use of screens, our biggest power is in our role modeling.

00:39:37.510 --> 00:39:44.271
So we need to check our own screen time first and don't for a minute think that we can sit in front of a screen and say, well, I'm at work.

00:39:44.420 --> 00:39:45.081
It's his work.

00:39:45.081 --> 00:39:50.420
Or we take our phone to the, to the meal table and we're like, well, I'm just catching up on a, you know, I just got to make sure in

00:39:50.425 --> 00:39:50.885
Just doing the

00:39:50.931 --> 00:39:51.860
text comes in.

00:39:52.231 --> 00:39:56.740
Yeah, that's that to a child is exactly the same as them.

00:39:57.121 --> 00:40:02.371
Um, scrolling through on the platform of their, of their favorite platform or checking in with their friends.

00:40:02.380 --> 00:40:03.431
That's their work.

00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:08.541
So if we want to bring in rules, they have to apply to everyone in the house.

00:40:08.900 --> 00:40:18.090
If we are going to devices away an hour before bedtime, because that we all know that that's that aids sleep and we don't take them into the bedroom.

00:40:18.335 --> 00:40:19.465
Everybody has to do it.

00:40:19.516 --> 00:40:20.956
Adults and children alike.

00:40:21.235 --> 00:40:30.326
So the first thing is to check our own use, because children, particularly teenagers, are really alert to when, you know, when things are fair or not fair.

00:40:30.365 --> 00:40:32.746
And why do you get to do it when I, when I can't?

00:40:33.295 --> 00:40:34.315
Um, then

00:40:34.315 --> 00:40:36.206
My argument is always, my brain's developed.

00:40:39.181 --> 00:40:42.271
Yeah, but we're just as, we are just as prone to that, to

00:40:42.295 --> 00:40:43.295
Oh, I'm terrible.

00:40:43.300 --> 00:40:44.181
aspects of it.

00:40:44.190 --> 00:40:50.141
So if we want to change our children's behavior, we start by changing our own, and we've got much more control over that.

00:40:50.161 --> 00:40:51.260
And if we haven't.

00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:59.150
Then that tells us that actually we are in a pattern that we, how can we dare to ask our children not to do something that we can't stop doing ourselves?

00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:05.981
And then it's having, having sometimes the strength to say no to our children.

00:41:06.210 --> 00:41:14.050
So even though all of their friends have got this or that platform or that smartphone or whatever, sometimes it's a, it's.

00:41:14.565 --> 00:41:19.635
A parent might decide actually, but you are not going to, you are not going to have a smartphone.

00:41:19.635 --> 00:41:28.996
You're going to have a brick, or we are going to turn the wifi off at 10 o'clock at night or whatever it is, and you will get your children hating on you and you will get your children saying.

00:41:28.996 --> 00:41:42.036
But everybody else, and this is where parent power comes in, if you get together with the parents of the, of, of your children's friends or get together with all the parents in your children's year, and this is something that's happening at the moment.

00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:53.871
Nationwide with the smartphone free culture, the smartphone free childhood is that actually we get to decide there's too much research out there to show that this is deeply harmful to our Children.

00:41:54.110 --> 00:42:01.420
It's causing, um, untold distress, anxiety, um, mental health issues.

00:42:01.751 --> 00:42:06.641
And, and I am actually the first person to say that I think social media and the internet is wonderful.

00:42:07.101 --> 00:42:23.070
I love it I thrive on it it's really beneficial it opens up a world to our children and puts them in contact with other people that they would never have been in contact with before they get to find out ideas and to connect with people but it's not safe and so.

00:42:24.431 --> 00:42:39.570
Unlike when we had kind of, uh, pornographic magazines in brown paper bags on the top shelf behind the news agent, um, we, we, as the adults can no longer keep our children safe in the way that, that we were kept safe.

00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:44.291
Um, and so the safety needs to be put within them.

00:42:44.311 --> 00:42:52.940
We, we need the kind of relationship with our children where when something's odd, instead of kind of when they catch them on their phone, instead of hiding it behind their back, they say, well, What should

00:42:52.956 --> 00:42:53.686
want to see this?

00:42:53.686 --> 00:42:54.106
Yeah.

00:42:54.431 --> 00:42:54.840
us.

00:42:55.181 --> 00:42:55.601
Yeah.

00:42:56.106 --> 00:43:11.126
And actually the, um, my middle son, um, who's 12, he, um, he attends a specialist school, and the conversations in the language in the classroom can be a little bit, um, Um, and not, I mean, I am quite a sweary mama who said that, but they know not so.

00:43:12.045 --> 00:43:16.646
And Hector, um, he did search a word that I would prefer to him to have not searched.

00:43:17.186 --> 00:43:17.951
He was curious.

00:43:18.295 --> 00:43:19.246
He wasn't being naughty.

00:43:19.246 --> 00:43:28.545
He was curious and he's in his bedroom and he comes into the bedroom and he's so distressed and he's so upset and something, I've done something terrible.

00:43:29.045 --> 00:43:31.065
And I thought, What on earth have you done?

00:43:31.106 --> 00:43:33.146
And then he told me and I was very, very calm.

00:43:33.146 --> 00:43:34.326
I just said, let me take the laptop.

00:43:34.326 --> 00:43:35.726
I need to think about this.

00:43:35.726 --> 00:43:39.655
And then I howled into a pillow because I thought I'd failed him so terribly.

00:43:39.655 --> 00:43:43.596
And he'd seen images that I would never in a million years of wanting my darling little boy to see.

00:43:44.476 --> 00:43:48.585
But when we'd come to my message, my friend, who's a special needs teacher, I was like, right, how do I do this?

00:43:48.585 --> 00:43:51.186
And she said, no shame, no shame.

00:43:51.186 --> 00:43:52.572
You know, he was curious.

00:43:52.572 --> 00:43:55.346
He saw something that you would prefer him to ignore.

00:43:55.346 --> 00:43:57.286
You explained that it's not real life.

00:43:57.286 --> 00:43:57.840
And you.

00:43:58.101 --> 00:44:04.070
Tell him that, you know, I didn't, I took his iPad, but I could just take UV search history off.

00:44:04.101 --> 00:44:08.880
But apart from that, he didn't really have what you would term a consequence, a negative consequence.

00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:12.990
We had a talk, probably an uncomfortable talk, because he had to talk to his mom about sex, but.

00:44:13.646 --> 00:44:31.456
I feel now that he knows he can come to me if he sees something that he shouldn't, if he, you know, because they're curious, children are curious, and they're going to look at things, but I would far rather they came to me and said, I've seen something I really wish I hadn't, and then you try and bleach their eyes for them, but you can't, unfortunately.

00:44:31.456 --> 00:44:33.101
I'm

00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:43.340
parenting, Rosie, and absolutely recognizing that his, it's children's job to be curious and they're going to encounter things and they're going to want to find out about them.

00:44:43.641 --> 00:44:47.271
And then we have the conversations with them.

00:44:47.271 --> 00:44:50.860
It's like, you can't take, it's hard to take pictures out of your head.

00:44:51.221 --> 00:44:59.590
So actually it's your job to protect yourself from not Having your eyes see them so you did brilliantly to come to me straight away.

00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:03.610
Um, and the same with scary movies.

00:45:03.610 --> 00:45:10.201
It's like some children are really unaffected by it and others are really deeply affected by, by something scary in a cartoon.

00:45:10.451 --> 00:45:14.885
So it varies from child to child, but the key thing there is that he came to you.

00:45:15.315 --> 00:45:16.485
Yeah, I was really,

00:45:16.786 --> 00:45:26.576
ally, that you're the person to go to when they feel like they've messed up or something, something's gone wrong and, and having no shame and no judgment is key to that.

00:45:26.815 --> 00:45:33.335
If they think there'll be a consequence or that you, they, you will look at them differently, then they won't want to come

00:45:33.465 --> 00:45:38.195
you know, no, and they, they, I, I'm very lucky that my kids are all.

00:45:38.835 --> 00:45:42.795
I'd love to be very, I mean all children love their mums, but we're very close, we are very, very close.

00:45:43.266 --> 00:45:59.746
And I, I wanted that, I wanted to, and again, you're traversing that fine line between being their friend and being their mum, which is often quite difficult, because you're not their friend, you're there to guide them, but you are also there to be their safe person, the person that they come to if they have got something they're ashamed or worried or frightened about.

00:46:01.615 --> 00:46:07.365
I did want to ask you a little bit, well, if you don't mind, about, I'm lurching from subject to subject.

00:46:07.376 --> 00:46:08.976
I'm so keen to get all these subjects covered.

00:46:09.346 --> 00:46:12.766
Um, about neurodiversity in girls.

00:46:12.835 --> 00:46:18.865
Now, I have spoken previously in my podcast about the fact that I was diagnosed with Autism and ADHD in my 40s.

00:46:19.626 --> 00:46:25.536
Um, it came about because my son was diagnosed with Autism at 5 and ADHD quite recently.

00:46:26.266 --> 00:46:30.065
And Basically, a friend said to me, I think you've got ADHD.

00:46:30.376 --> 00:46:33.206
And I said, don't be bloody ridiculous, I can sit still.

00:46:33.925 --> 00:46:36.496
I'm making great, you know, all these, all these things.

00:46:36.536 --> 00:46:38.815
And I, I didn't speak to her for about two weeks.

00:46:38.826 --> 00:46:42.206
She's also got ADHD, so she didn't notice I wasn't talking to her for two weeks.

00:46:43.005 --> 00:46:46.315
And in the end, I sort of thought, okay, maybe I should just explore this.

00:46:46.425 --> 00:46:56.315
And lo and behold, but I look back now at my childhood, and it, it tallies almost perfectly with the onset of periods and puberty.

00:46:57.025 --> 00:47:00.516
I became very, um, angry, very, very angry.

00:47:00.576 --> 00:47:02.896
I became very risk taking.

00:47:02.965 --> 00:47:05.286
I drank from 14 and I drank a lot.

00:47:05.945 --> 00:47:08.195
I became quite sexualized.

00:47:08.195 --> 00:47:13.025
I took, you know, the fact I'm still here to tell the tale still surprises me a bit.

00:47:13.755 --> 00:47:17.985
Now the catalyst really for making people aware was self harm and bulimia.

00:47:18.226 --> 00:47:21.476
And that was when my parents involved outside agencies.

00:47:21.505 --> 00:47:25.626
I actually spent some time in a clinic, but at no point during this entire process.

00:47:26.641 --> 00:47:29.530
Probably because it wasn't even recognised on the right to use it in girls.

00:47:30.061 --> 00:47:33.460
Did anybody say, have we screened her for ADHD or autism?

00:47:33.721 --> 00:47:37.721
And I think that my trajectory would have been very different.

00:47:38.106 --> 00:47:38.385
Neurodiversity

00:47:38.831 --> 00:47:50.331
So, are you seeing that girls who are perhaps neurodivergent and are struggling in mainstream settings, because now we know a bit more about why they might be struggling, do you find they're coming to you for support?

00:47:50.331 --> 00:47:56.760
And I suppose I'm wondering, I have a neurodivergent daughter, how, how Do we help them?

00:47:56.771 --> 00:47:59.501
Because everything feels bigger.

00:47:59.550 --> 00:48:06.590
They're more likely to be affected by hormonal fluctuations, by, you know, the sensory issues around their changing body.

00:48:07.061 --> 00:48:11.590
And also, they might need to be spoken to in a very different way.

00:48:11.630 --> 00:48:18.360
You know, some autistic children do need very, very straightforward information, very clear, concise, and others will talk round us.

00:48:18.670 --> 00:48:18.951
Me.

00:48:21.056 --> 00:48:25.315
was Much more readily picked up in boys than girls.

00:48:25.965 --> 00:48:35.516
And also because girls are often socially better developed than boys are, they also learn how to mask it.

00:48:36.045 --> 00:48:42.005
So, um, it doesn't show up in them when they're little in the way that it sometimes does with boys.

00:48:42.925 --> 00:48:54.815
Curiously, it's often in the preteens around year six and year seven, around the onset of puberty, that it does start to show up in girls because suddenly relationships become a lot more complex.

00:48:55.016 --> 00:49:01.755
So what has been working for them up till now is, is starting to, um, become more challenging.

00:49:02.056 --> 00:49:06.576
The, the complexity of the relationships, life becomes more demanding.

00:49:06.846 --> 00:49:12.045
And so, That kind of easily overstimulated becomes more of a, an issue.

00:49:12.576 --> 00:49:20.065
Um, curiously also neurodiverse girls do find periods really quite hard to handle, um,

00:49:20.365 --> 00:49:20.510
Um.

00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:20.791
Mm

00:49:21.295 --> 00:49:28.001
for many different reasons, a lot of neurodiverse girls, um, are brought to us in our groups.

00:49:28.021 --> 00:49:44.201
And so it is a really important part of our training when we're training women to work with, with the girls, whether it be our in person program or the online program, the online program suits neurodiverse girls quite well, actually, because some of them become quite socially reticent, maybe they're even school refusing.

00:49:44.501 --> 00:49:45.262
And so.

00:49:45.456 --> 00:49:49.865
Um, girls net, which is a much shorter program, it's just six weeks online.

00:49:50.226 --> 00:49:53.005
They don't have to turn their cameras on if they don't want to.

00:49:53.166 --> 00:49:55.556
They don't even have to speak if they don't want to.

00:49:55.766 --> 00:49:57.226
They can just type in chat.

00:49:57.585 --> 00:50:06.766
And so we create a place where they can just show up, um, as themselves, um, and in the safety and the privacy of their own home.

00:50:07.206 --> 00:50:12.976
So that can be a way where we, um, they can belong to a group, a group of girls.

00:50:13.255 --> 00:50:26.606
They can, um, go through the program where we resource them, first of all, internally with what they need to, to meet chimes of challenge, but also to kind of identify who around them is, is a support.

00:50:26.976 --> 00:50:33.231
Um, and, um, Interestingly, you know, we get a lot of neurodiverse women coming to train with us, too.

00:50:33.411 --> 00:50:37.260
I think they, they bring something very unique and very special.

00:50:37.271 --> 00:50:43.411
So, um, for me, it's, it's, um, it's something that we come across a lot.

00:50:43.751 --> 00:50:54.340
Um, it usually adds to every group, whether it be the girls who are neurodiverse, bringing something to the, to the girls group or the women that we train to, to work with the girls.

00:50:55.076 --> 00:51:11.585
The women that come to work with you, presumably, if they're not a divergent, they may have experienced a childhood like I had, you know, where they did have that feeling of not quite belonging, of having to mask very heavily, of, you know, I managed to wheedle into the popular group at school and then spent, you know, years desperately trying to keep up the facade.

00:51:12.016 --> 00:51:14.396
And it's actually, it's so exhausting.

00:51:14.396 --> 00:51:17.826
So, as I'm listening to you, I'm like, why won't I sign up if I've got time to do this?

00:51:17.826 --> 00:51:18.175
Because.

00:51:18.695 --> 00:51:38.190
I can understand why people want to do it, why they want to give these girls the, the, the, I'm thinking like just the tools, the weaponry doesn't feel quite right, but the resources, the skills to, to know who they are and to be happy in who they are because every, And you find yourself sort of telling little white lies as a teenager.

00:51:38.201 --> 00:51:40.400
You'll sort of say, oh yes, I used to say I might take that.

00:51:40.420 --> 00:51:41.271
I didn't.

00:51:41.780 --> 00:51:45.331
And then like, then I'd always be so scared of getting caught out.

00:51:45.391 --> 00:51:51.030
And it's that, if I can just teach my children to be true to yourself, you can't be caught out in a lie if you're not lying.

00:51:51.460 --> 00:51:55.851
And one of the biggest lies we do as The Lord of Virgin Girls is we pretend to be something we're not.

00:51:55.851 --> 00:52:00.851
And you know, the mask is pretty useful sometimes, but you have to have a place it can come down.

00:52:01.331 --> 00:52:03.851
Otherwise you, well, you're heading burnout.

00:52:03.931 --> 00:52:05.606
Yeah,

00:52:05.630 --> 00:52:17.590
why our groups are set up in the way that they are to really welcome girls exactly as they are to give them a very strong experience that they don't have to change anything about themselves to fit in because they belong already.

00:52:18.021 --> 00:52:26.780
But actually, let's be honest, how many women aren't covering up who they are, who feel, how many women feel they genuinely really can be their authentic selves?

00:52:27.050 --> 00:52:32.161
And that's a huge part of the training is we work with all of the women that they.

00:52:32.431 --> 00:52:34.521
Make friends with themselves.

00:52:34.521 --> 00:52:37.291
They, um, make peace with who they are.

00:52:37.411 --> 00:52:48.141
They, um, stop seeing themselves as a work in progress or something in need of development and improvement that actually we each in our own unique way are perfect.

00:52:48.460 --> 00:53:03.971
And if we really want the girls around us, whether it be the girls that we work with or the girls that we're parenting, um, if we really want them to, to, to To feel that sense of self acceptance, we need to find it in ourselves first.

00:53:05.101 --> 00:53:09.431
well, much like the screen time, if you're going to preach, you've got to practice as well.

00:53:09.951 --> 00:53:16.690
And I'm just going to hop back to the screen time, because I was thinking when you said, you know, about being present and how it doesn't have to just be physically present.

00:53:17.101 --> 00:53:18.240
Because I'm like, I'm always here.

00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:19.090
I'm always here.

00:53:19.090 --> 00:53:19.851
I work from home.

00:53:19.851 --> 00:53:21.070
I'm always here.

00:53:21.070 --> 00:53:21.661
I'm in every school.

00:53:22.315 --> 00:53:34.706
How often am I sat watching junk telly or scrolling my phone because I, and I do realize that I need a way to disconnect and sometimes some mindless doom scrolling can be, you know, I'm not going to say helpful, but not harmful.

00:53:35.266 --> 00:53:43.755
But just because you're physically there, if you're WhatsAppping your friends or doing the food truck or doing the banking, you'll know more there than if you weren't in the house.

00:53:43.896 --> 00:53:44.846
And that's just sort of.

00:53:45.126 --> 00:54:05.695
Um, yeah, that's just made me think really, because I, I often will just go sit in the sofa, that's my time to scroll my phone, and of course that's where my kids are around, I don't use, I have my, I always leave my phone downstairs when I put my, I only put one of them to bed now, they're too big to need me, but when I take her up for a story, I always leave my phone downstairs, so she knows that that's very much our time, we, we read and we chat and go through the day.

00:54:06.646 --> 00:54:08.365
Now, I suppose my

00:54:08.666 --> 00:54:11.400
Rosie, when you say, Rosie, can I just interrupt you?

00:54:11.811 --> 00:54:29.956
When you say that, um, you're recognizing the value of giving your children your undivided attention sometimes, and recognizing that when you're around and about in the house watching something, or, um, or, Scrolling through some things on your phone that you're not really present.

00:54:30.485 --> 00:54:31.315
That is true.

00:54:32.235 --> 00:54:39.365
But I think it's really important, not for us as parents, not to feel like we're supposed to be present, present like that all of the time.

00:54:39.686 --> 00:54:47.195
And in actual fact, sometimes what we really need is to be present to our own needs not to put them to one side either.

00:54:47.695 --> 00:54:48.096
Yeah.

00:54:48.255 --> 00:54:55.376
And so when, when you say you're, you're taking some time out, um, actually to really properly give that to yourself.

00:54:56.451 --> 00:54:58.751
That actually I'm going, I need 10 minutes right now.

00:54:58.791 --> 00:55:09.490
I'm going to take myself into the bedroom and watch a part of a podcast or, um, read a chapter in my book or so that we give ourselves our full attention.

00:55:09.490 --> 00:55:13.090
So we get really proper nourishing downtime as well.

00:55:13.300 --> 00:55:16.050
As parents, there's no way we can be on all of the time.

00:55:16.340 --> 00:55:21.891
Um, and whilst we might need to physically be in the house, particularly if they're little, um, we can create time.

00:55:21.911 --> 00:55:26.561
pockets of restorative nourishing time for ourselves as well.

00:55:27.570 --> 00:55:29.351
The bathroom has a lock, that's where I go.

00:55:30.371 --> 00:55:31.460
Go for a long wallow in the bath.

00:55:32.451 --> 00:55:40.860
So if I've got people listening and they would love to either have their daughters become involved in Rights for Girls, or actually explain the name to me, Rights for Girls.

00:55:41.851 --> 00:55:46.391
Rights for girls is spelled R I T E S as in rights of passage.

00:55:47.070 --> 00:55:51.360
So, um, Rites of passage are really important.

00:55:51.371 --> 00:55:57.411
We always celebrate when a baby is born and we honor someone's life at the end of their life.

00:55:57.811 --> 00:56:02.771
And we probably celebrate when two adults join in union in somewhere in the middle of their lives.

00:56:03.150 --> 00:56:13.650
Um, but the rite of passage that used to be the most important, used to be given the most time and attention because it was recognized as being the most important one for the health, not of the individual.

00:56:13.936 --> 00:56:20.916
only of the individual, but also of the whole society is the puberty rite of passage or the coming of age rite of passage.

00:56:21.186 --> 00:56:23.106
That's the one we've kind of nearly lost.

00:56:23.405 --> 00:56:29.445
A few religions have held on to aspects of it with the confirmation or the bar mitzvah and the bat mitzvah.

00:56:29.826 --> 00:56:36.356
But for the most part, children aren't initiated into adulthood in, in the way that they always Used to be.

00:56:36.655 --> 00:56:39.905
And so what we see is we see teenagers self initiating.

00:56:40.135 --> 00:56:45.936
We see that they're trying to prove to themselves and each other and the adults around them that they're growing up.

00:56:45.965 --> 00:56:48.925
But how do they do that in the absence of a rite of passage?

00:56:48.925 --> 00:56:54.746
Well, they, they dress like adults or they behave or do things that adults do.

00:56:54.786 --> 00:56:57.085
And as if that's going to prove that they're growing up.

00:56:57.085 --> 00:57:02.485
And of course that doesn't prove it, but that's their attempt to try and self initiate into adulthood.

00:57:03.746 --> 00:57:13.722
One of the things at Rites for Girls is that we're wanting to bring back the puberty rite of passage, but in a way that feels comfortable and reasonable to a modern day girl.

00:57:14.275 --> 00:57:24.396
Um, so it doesn't necessarily mean lighting candles and chanting and going out into the woods or any of the things that might have happened, um, to back in this country when it used to happen.

00:57:24.695 --> 00:57:27.856
Um, it's about finding a modern day way of doing that.

00:57:27.856 --> 00:57:45.445
And in fact, the last chapter of my book is all about how to create or co create a rite of passage with, or for your child as a way of marking it so that they don't feel they have to enter into some of the risky behaviors that we see a lot of teenagers doing in order to prove that they're growing

00:57:45.746 --> 00:57:47.945
They're grown up, and it could be like your daughter.

00:57:47.996 --> 00:58:00.775
I mean, I know she's, she's 19 now, but the suggestion of a pajama day on the sofa and, and I actually, that's one of the things I did before he was, you know, just the history of clean pajamas, chocolate, you know, a warming thing for your belly.

00:58:01.235 --> 00:58:05.985
And so you can kind of, and you can buy them ready made these sorts of welcome to your period packs.

00:58:06.056 --> 00:58:06.346
Yeah.

00:58:06.726 --> 00:58:08.565
Welcome to the next 40 years of your life.

00:58:08.565 --> 00:58:13.155
But they, you can sort of celebrate it, celebrate the fact that they're changing.

00:58:13.501 --> 00:58:20.630
Rather than running away from it, trying to hide from it showing, you know, disgust or revulsion about their changing bodies.

00:58:20.630 --> 00:58:23.050
It's all about celebrating every little face.

00:58:23.050 --> 00:58:27.681
Like when they're babies, we celebrate when they poo for the first time and they smile.

00:58:27.701 --> 00:58:31.951
And actually those are, those are big life changes and big significant things.

00:58:31.951 --> 00:58:35.360
And so too is starting your periods and starting puberty.

00:58:35.721 --> 00:58:36.851
And I think I love the

00:58:36.925 --> 00:58:38.735
and celebrating it in a way.

00:58:39.436 --> 00:58:42.706
Celebrating it in a way that's, that's not going to embarrass them.

00:58:43.101 --> 00:58:44.081
Yeah, don't throw a party for them.

00:58:45.101 --> 00:58:46.791
With a sanitary towel shaped cake.

00:58:49.380 --> 00:58:50.190
I mean, you can if you want.

00:58:51.121 --> 00:58:51.751
Or do I admit it?

00:58:53.701 --> 00:58:55.271
So, sorry, we digress.

00:58:55.510 --> 00:59:01.411
So, if somebody is interested in either coming to you for some support for their daughter, what age group do you support?

00:59:03.585 --> 00:59:06.126
So I work with parents individually.

00:59:06.456 --> 00:59:08.525
Um, and that can be booked privately.

00:59:08.746 --> 00:59:12.365
I also run an online parenting course over three weeks.

00:59:12.885 --> 00:59:25.085
Um, our program is for girls anywhere between eight and 18 for our girls net online program, or for girls who are in year six or year seven for our in person girls joining together program.

00:59:25.985 --> 00:59:30.815
Details of all of those can be found on our website, either under girls group or in the shop.

00:59:31.295 --> 00:59:34.195
Um, and of course, something really important.

00:59:34.195 --> 00:59:38.106
We need more women to be offering these groups around the world, around the country.

00:59:38.456 --> 00:59:44.686
So if you're at all interested in finding out more about training with us and, um, you don't have to be a parent.

00:59:45.050 --> 00:59:48.030
But you can be, you don't have to work with children, but you can.

00:59:48.411 --> 00:59:50.550
Um, you don't have to be a particular age.

00:59:50.860 --> 01:00:04.300
Um, but if you feel like you'd like to make a difference for girls growing up, um, and you'd like to find out how we do that, then we have free webinars once a month and our next trainings are starting.

01:00:04.380 --> 01:00:08.050
Um, well, the girls net mentor training is actually starting really soon.

01:00:08.050 --> 01:00:09.411
It's starting in January.

01:00:09.751 --> 01:00:14.675
Um, and our girls joining together facilitator training is starting later in the year.

01:00:15.826 --> 01:00:28.726
I will make sure that I put links to your website in the show notes for this and yeah, actually, because I'm going to ask you off air anyway, um, I might as well ask you now for other people, what sort of commitment are you looking for from volunteers?

01:00:30.025 --> 01:00:35.686
So first of all, it's not volunteers because the training costs you money.

01:00:36.085 --> 01:00:39.016
And then once you're running the groups, you earn money.

01:00:39.786 --> 01:00:45.405
Um, for the girls net mentor training, that's a six month training.

01:00:45.405 --> 01:00:46.606
It's all online.

01:00:46.876 --> 01:00:48.025
It's in the evenings.

01:00:48.025 --> 01:00:49.585
It's two and a half hours.

01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.871
Every week for six weeks, then there's a break.

01:00:52.940 --> 01:00:55.871
And then it's another couple of hours every week for six weeks.

01:00:56.550 --> 01:01:03.601
Um, if you're interested in the girls journeying together training, um, to be a facilitator for that, that's a two year training program.

01:01:04.090 --> 01:01:07.650
The first year is three residentials.

01:01:07.806 --> 01:01:30.356
Each of them eight or nine days long and then followed by running your first group really closely supervised by us But of course then you're starting to earn money while still in training and the training for either of those programs It has three threads one is you experience each of the girls group sessions As your preteen self, because it's so much easier to give something that you've experienced yourself.

01:01:30.356 --> 01:01:34.876
And of course, that engages you in the healing work of your own child.

01:01:35.235 --> 01:01:40.425
So that places you in a much better position to be able to then work with the girls themselves.

01:01:41.025 --> 01:01:46.135
Then you learn all the, you get all the materials and the time tables and the handouts and all the everything practical things.

01:01:46.356 --> 01:01:50.115
And what if and how do I do this and what if that, all of that practical stuff.

01:01:50.115 --> 01:01:51.275
That's the second thread.

01:01:51.675 --> 01:01:57.365
And then the third thread is working with you as a woman, doing the women's work so that you are, um.

01:01:57.731 --> 01:02:02.021
More able to step into your own authority, you can confidently take on this role.

01:02:02.251 --> 01:02:11.610
It's not about turning you into anyone other than yourself, but in a way that you feel better equipped to handle whatever comes your way when you're working with the girls.

01:02:11.940 --> 01:02:14.110
And of course you're doing that with a cohort of women.

01:02:14.110 --> 01:02:16.380
So just the same as the girls make friends to look

01:02:16.431 --> 01:02:17.311
find your tribe.

01:02:17.610 --> 01:02:21.130
group, you make friends for life with the women that you train with.

01:02:21.161 --> 01:02:21.960
It's a very.

01:02:22.335 --> 01:02:28.335
Um, deep and demanding training, but it's also very fulfilling and quite life changing.

01:02:29.610 --> 01:02:34.041
Yeah, I'm, as you're talking, I'm like, can I give up that time right now?

01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:35.201
And do you know what?

01:02:35.231 --> 01:02:36.340
I am going to look into it.

01:02:36.340 --> 01:02:42.121
And I think I'm going to attend the free webinar because what you're doing is amazing.

01:02:42.420 --> 01:02:43.771
I wish there'd been something like that.

01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:45.840
I, I did do the brownies, I went all the way to rangers.

01:02:46.210 --> 01:02:50.070
And, and that I think for my mom was like, there you go, stay there, that'll keep you safe.

01:02:50.490 --> 01:03:00.360
And of course, this is the sort of modern equivalent, and it's just that lovely, all encompassing, inclusive idea that girls can just be girls.

01:03:00.831 --> 01:03:04.300
And on that note, may we ask you about trans girls?

01:03:05.686 --> 01:03:08.096
Are they, are you, do you, are you open to them?

01:03:08.945 --> 01:03:13.956
So I've been working with groups of girls for 30 years.

01:03:14.356 --> 01:03:20.445
Um, and particularly when they're in that sort of prepubescent age, 10, 11, 12 years old.

01:03:21.025 --> 01:03:26.686
I've, um, met so many girls who come to my group and they kind of go, I'm not girly.

01:03:26.735 --> 01:03:28.215
I hate pink and frills.

01:03:28.485 --> 01:03:29.476
I'm a tomboy.

01:03:29.556 --> 01:03:30.945
I like to climb trees.

01:03:31.445 --> 01:03:32.146
And that was it.

01:03:32.391 --> 01:03:36.311
A label and an identity that they were able to claim with pride.

01:03:37.271 --> 01:03:48.181
In recent years, and it is only in the last few years, those same girls come to my groups and they say, I'm not girly, I don't like pink and frills, I like wearing trousers.

01:03:49.001 --> 01:03:50.431
Does that mean I am a boy?

01:03:51.601 --> 01:04:03.960
So what we want to do is create a place where they can safely explore what it means to be a girl, what they think They would be able to do differently or better if they were a boy.

01:04:04.420 --> 01:04:10.070
Um, and to explore what kind of girl they want to be, what kind of young woman they want to grow up to be.

01:04:10.690 --> 01:04:13.860
So girls journeying together is for girls.

01:04:14.240 --> 01:04:19.090
Um, we're not the right place for little boys who think they might be a girl.

01:04:19.471 --> 01:04:21.710
Um, that's not to say that they don't have.

01:04:22.101 --> 01:04:24.150
Their own needs for extra support.

01:04:24.150 --> 01:04:35.081
So we would sign paste, post them to places where they can get that, but they would not feel comfortable in a group of girls all talking about physical changes that will never happen in their bodies.

01:04:35.541 --> 01:04:39.911
Um, we're not the right place for them, but we are the right place for girls.

01:04:40.121 --> 01:04:47.581
Even those girls who are curious about what it means to be a girl and questioning how much they like the idea of it.

01:04:47.931 --> 01:04:57.061
And I mean, actually, when I talk to my women friends, what, what What woman doesn't at some stage in her life, look at women and kind of go, I'm not sure that looks very nice.

01:04:57.061 --> 01:04:57.170
I

01:04:57.226 --> 01:04:59.065
Yeah, got the short end of the stick here.

01:05:01.820 --> 01:05:08.041
So we are a place for girls to be able to explore, um, what growing up as a girl is means to them.

01:05:08.826 --> 01:05:10.005
Oh, I think that's wonderful.

01:05:10.016 --> 01:05:11.865
Thank you so much and just.

01:05:12.380 --> 01:05:24.501
Leave me with one piece of advice that you would give to mothers or carers of a girl who is starting her periods and is starting to change and they just want to find a way back to them.

01:05:25.791 --> 01:05:40.420
I didn't know you were going to ask me this, but I do actually know what I want to say, um, and it's different every time I get asked this question, but today, the thing that comes to my mind is that we can be.

01:05:40.795 --> 01:05:44.956
More authentically ourselves, we can be a better parent.

01:05:45.396 --> 01:05:53.905
We can be a happier person and more comfortable in our own skin when we are taking care of ourselves.

01:05:54.666 --> 01:05:56.956
And what does that mean really?

01:05:57.126 --> 01:05:58.815
Well, it means being selfish.

01:05:59.076 --> 01:06:01.135
It's a healthy thing to be selfish.

01:06:01.405 --> 01:06:04.226
It's to notice when am I getting stressed?

01:06:04.436 --> 01:06:07.706
Because that's often a good sign to say, I need something more.

01:06:07.885 --> 01:06:09.335
Our feelings are never wrong.

01:06:09.385 --> 01:06:11.425
They're signposts to tell us what we need.

01:06:11.436 --> 01:06:13.905
It's just gets complicated when we ignore them.

01:06:14.405 --> 01:06:20.215
So if our feelings are telling us that all is not well in our world and we need something different, we need something more.

01:06:20.215 --> 01:06:25.945
We need to resource or nourish ourselves in some way that has to become a priority.

01:06:26.496 --> 01:06:27.445
Whether it means.

01:06:28.126 --> 01:06:35.846
To be a good parent, to be a comfortable person, to be good at our jobs, um, to be good at our schoolwork.

01:06:36.255 --> 01:06:44.445
Actually taking care of ourselves is going to make us better able to do whatever it is we want to do, but that bit better.

01:06:46.106 --> 01:06:48.715
I find myself now, cause I do suffer from anxiety.

01:06:48.715 --> 01:06:51.096
I have done, I didn't use to ever since my husband died.

01:06:51.516 --> 01:06:53.106
And I find that not in my stomach.

01:06:53.106 --> 01:06:56.266
And I say, but what, you know, I keep questioning it, but why?

01:06:56.556 --> 01:07:02.286
And what, and even, it's hard to really say, um, you know, what people are sometimes saying out loud, what do you need from me?

01:07:02.541 --> 01:07:03.650
Like, what, what do you need?

01:07:04.041 --> 01:07:05.510
And today I went upstairs.

01:07:05.510 --> 01:07:11.811
I was hoping I'd have a nap and I didn't, but I did lay in the bed with my headphones and listening to like wave music or something for an hour.

01:07:12.340 --> 01:07:13.990
And I did feel better afterwards.

01:07:14.094 --> 01:07:19.690
But you are so scared that if you're not, you know, spinning those plates, that everything's gonna crumble around you.

01:07:19.990 --> 01:07:21.460
But we do forget to take the breaks.

01:07:21.460 --> 01:07:27.251
And, and that will be when I'm ratty, that will be when I'm, you know, much, my fuse is almost non-existent.

01:07:27.731 --> 01:07:31.300
And also the fact that I am perimenopausal, it does not help.

01:07:31.300 --> 01:07:31.811
So it's.

01:07:32.380 --> 01:07:37.760
It's, this morning I woke up, rubbish today, and I thought, oh, here we go, luteal phase.

01:07:38.521 --> 01:07:59.731
But because I know that's what it is, I can be more compassionate to myself, and much like my daughter, if I, I track her period, so I'm like, okay, well, this is why she's being, you know, particularly challenging, I will step back, the sort of, you know, the parenting a little bit more compassionate too, so just knowing what's going on in our bodies and in their bodies, that's part of the back wall, I think.

01:08:00.990 --> 01:08:04.030
Well, Kim, it has been incredible to talk to you.

01:08:04.090 --> 01:08:08.840
I have genuinely, I've hardly made any notes cause I've been so captivated by what you're saying.

01:08:09.260 --> 01:08:12.001
And I think that the work that you're doing is amazing.

01:08:12.001 --> 01:08:20.291
So thank you on behalf of a troubled teenage girl who's now grown up and on behalf of my daughters, who I am definitely going to my eldest in year seven.

01:08:20.291 --> 01:08:25.190
So I personally am going to be looking and exploring her coming along to the meetings or online, whichever she likes.

01:08:26.485 --> 01:08:47.445
For now, thank you for coming on, and to everybody else out there listening, if there has been anything in this episode that you either found really super exciting, you want to know more about, if you're interested in getting involved with Rights for Girls, or if you've just got a question for me, please do let me know, and I hate saying this, but please don't forget to like and subscribe, and leave a review, because otherwise people don't know we exist.

01:08:48.256 --> 01:08:48.576
Thank

01:08:48.676 --> 01:08:49.076
for now.

01:08:49.636 --> 01:08:51.666
I've really enjoyed talking with you.

01:08:51.695 --> 01:08:52.376
Thank you.

01:08:52.765 --> 01:08:57.266
I have as well, Kim, thanks ever so much, take care, and to everybody else out there, you take care as well.

01:08:57.266 --> 01:08:57.605
Bye bye.